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  • I agree that Arya's story line got pretty interesting in the last episode. I agree she'll kill the Waif, but there has to be more to it. Surely they didn't spend two seasons of her going through all of that for nothing. Plus, I don't imagine they'd let her get away like that. I hope before she leaves she learns something key about the Faceless Men that factor into the end game. A theory I read, based off the book (specifically A Feast for Crows prologue), is that the Faceless Men are trying to destroy the Dragons. There's one book on how to do it, and it's located in the locked vault of the Citadel's library. And another theory that tied into this, is that Euron Greyjoy paid the Faceless Men the dragon egg he said he threw into the sea to murder his brother Balon. It was a high price because Balon is a King. Hopefully this would also show how the Doom of Valyria happened and that would all tie in, too.

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    • Originally posted by Josh View Post
      Heard some pretty intense rumours:

      Cersei won't get her trial by combat, meaning no Hound return. Instead, she'll set the Mountain loose.

      Tommen commits suicide.

      The Waif may actually be Arya's former instructor Syrio.


      In my personal opinion, these Tower of Joy visions are pretty clearly leading to Jon Snow being the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. But.. doesn't that make Jon the Father of Dragons?
      I'm 99% sure that the Hound will return, and in the next episode. I'm sort of thinking that the Trial might not happen, at least this season. But I do believe the Hound will return, although I'm not sure in what fashion.

      The Tommen thing is really interesting. I wonder who would replace him on the Throne? No heir, no siblings, no 'family', either. No way Cersei would end up sitting on the Throne, would she? And also I wonder what drives him to do this. He just got his wife back and seems to be as powerful as ever. A lot of things must change in the next few episodes.

      Would it make Jon Snow that? Dany is Jon's aunt, not his brother or anything. I think the entire Tower of Joy thing has to be 100% to Jon being Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. Although I think a lot of people are hoping for an alternative twist to go along with it because it's too simple, I don't think it really is. People have analyzed the books to the point where several theories are likely to come true. If he put the books out in a more timely fashioned, like he planned to, we wouldn't have this problem, I don't think. I think the entire Jon Snow parentage thing might be the coolest thing about the series because it's so mind-blowing to me.

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      • Interesting episode...

        The Hound did return, which is interesting given what you said about the trial by combat, Josh. I wonder where his story will go. It's likely he'll kill the Brotherhood, because why re-introduce a character like that only to have him die by something pretty irrelevant. Where does he go from here, though? The only way I could see him dying is if they introduced Lady Stoneheart and used this as a way to bring the Brotherhood back, although I think that ship has sailed.

        Arya is also another interesting development in this episode. I don't think it makes sense to keep her alive. I understand she's a fan favourite and everyone is hoping for a revenge story, but it just doesn't make sense to me. The Faceless Men are after her, and it seems they're highly skilled assassins who can kill anyone. Arya isn't a knight, nor a good fighter. I don't think it makes sense to have her escape them throughout the rest of the story, and I doubt they would stop unless she was dead. Plus, she just got stabbed multiple times. Characters in this show make mistakes, and they pay for it. Her mistake was getting involved with the Faceless Men and not having the killer mindset you need in that group. She got in too deep, especially by using their equipment for her own personal gain, and doesn't have the skill to get out of it. Next episode will be huge from her. Something crazy will happen.

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        • I don't think they'll kill Arya, not yet anyways. It makes her story so utterly pointless. What are your thoughts on the Waif not successfully killing her? Was it intentional or is she just not a great assassin after all?


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          • I'm not sure what to think of it, actually. Although it seems like The Waif has some sort of personal issue with Arya, the Faceless Men are a great mystery to me. Remember in the Season 5 finale, Jaqen died but it proved not to be Jaqen? I think these people are, literally, no one. Just an unbiased soul that can face-swap, so The Waif is really interesting to me.

            I think the only way Arya could survive is if the Faceless Men don't actually want to kill her. I just don't see how you can survive when any single person could be an assassin in disguise and you're not a very good fighter. I don't think she'll die this season, either. But I think she should. I do agree it would be sort of an ant-climatic ending for her, but I think it follows the shows beliefs very well. The show is pretty much just following the Stark children plus others around this world. Ned made mistakes and was killed for it. Robb made mistakes and was killed for it. Arya made a huge mistake by becoming 100% invested in becoming a Faceless Man (and learning about them, and wasting everyone's time) but she couldn't follow through with them. I would like to see them give a big reveal about the Faceless Men and how they plan to affect the end game (such as the dragon killing thing I posted earlier in the week), and then have them kill Arya. Then it doesn't make the entire Faceless Men story pointless. Arya provides insight into the Faceless Men and how they will affect the end game of the series, and then gets killed off due to her mistakes.

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            • Another interesting possibility ... Was the Arya we saw in Episode 7 really Arya? On a re-watch I got to thinking about a bunch of weird stuff in her story line this episode. First of all, she didn't have Needle on her. This is pretty significant, especially because they made a point to show her get it from under the rocks. Why wouldn't she have it on her, and where would she even keep it? Secondly, why would she be walking the streets of Braavos like that? They also made a point to show Arya was scared, rightfully so, and went into complete hiding in the previous episode. Now suddenly she's walking the streets without Needle and so careless?

              Jaqen saw The Waif get frustrated on a personal level with Arya. He's not stupid. Does The Waif really display traits of being no one? Not really. This could have been a test from Jaqen. He told her to give her a quick death and it's clear The Waif wanted her to suffer. Perhaps this was someone that he sent with Arya's face and she's failed. I don't see how this really saves Arya, because she's still disobeyed orders a couple times from the Faceless Men, but there could be something there.

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              • Originally posted by Alfie11
                Another interesting possibility ... Was the Arya we saw in Episode 7 really Arya? On a re-watch I got to thinking about a bunch of weird stuff in her story line this episode. First of all, she didn't have Needle on her. This is pretty significant, especially because they made a point to show her get it from under the rocks. Why wouldn't she have it on her, and where would she even keep it? Secondly, why would she be walking the streets of Braavos like that? They also made a point to show Arya was scared, rightfully so, and went into complete hiding in the previous episode. Now suddenly she's walking the streets without Needle and so careless?

                Jaqen saw The Waif get frustrated on a personal level with Arya. He's not stupid. Does The Waif really display traits of being no one? Not really. This could have been a test from Jaqen. He told her to give her a quick death and it's clear The Waif wanted her to suffer. Perhaps this was someone that he sent with Arya's face and she's failed. I don't see how this really saves Arya, because she's still disobeyed orders a couple times from the Faceless Men, but there could be something there.
                Whoa, good point, I hadn't even considered that! The last three episodes of the season are definitely going to be interesting.

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                • Originally posted by Josh View Post

                  Whoa, good point, I hadn't even considered that! The last three episodes of the season are definitely going to be interesting.
                  Yup. The next three episodes are 59, 60 and 69 minutes, respectively. The season finale is the longest Game of Thrones episode to date

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                  • Josh, you may have been right about Syrio returning. One of the promo shots for this episode (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkhSNKPWYAA3noF.jpg) features a very familiar silhouette behind The Waif. This would be the third episode in a row where a character we were made to believe was dead, has shown up (first Benjen, then The Hound). It seems as though Benjen and Syrio would both be introduced again to save a main character, but The Hound's endgame is still up for guessing.

                    Also, could this be the season we will see Lady Stoneheart, finally? If we were going to see her ever, it would be now. A ton of characters are coming back, Brienne/Jaime are in the Riverlands, the Frey's are back in the game, and the Brotherhood Without Banners have made an appearance again. I'm not getting my hopes up, but this is the last chance they have to do her character arc. Could she be back in the finale?

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                    • Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post
                      Josh, you may have been right about Syrio returning. One of the promo shots for this episode (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkhSNKPWYAA3noF.jpg) features a very familiar silhouette behind The Waif. This would be the third episode in a row where a character we were made to believe was dead, has shown up (first Benjen, then The Hound). It seems as though Benjen and Syrio would both be introduced again to save a main character, but The Hound's endgame is still up for guessing.

                      Also, could this be the season we will see Lady Stoneheart, finally? If we were going to see her ever, it would be now. A ton of characters are coming back, Brienne/Jaime are in the Riverlands, the Frey's are back in the game, and the Brotherhood Without Banners have made an appearance again. I'm not getting my hopes up, but this is the last chance they have to do her character arc. Could she be back in the finale?
                      Any chance the silhouette IS Lady Stoneheart?!

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                      • Originally posted by Josh View Post

                        Any chance the silhouette IS Lady Stoneheart?!
                        Here's a comparison pic of the silhouette and Syrio: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ckl6AzLWYAAnTrA.jpg

                        I think it has to be Syrio, especially as I'd expect Stoneheart to show up in Westeros, if anything at all. But the thought of her being in Braavos would be interesting. I wonder what the Faceless Men would think of her ... she cheated death and took a death from their Many Faced God

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                        • What did you think of that episode, Josh?

                          I don't understand the Arya storyline at all. It turns out that was her, walking around in broad daylight with no weapon, fully aware that assassins were coming after her, despite hiding out the night before. I also don't understand what Jaqen was going with at the end. She's finally no one, yet she's holding Needle and seems the furthest thing from "no one". I will say, I liked how the show had Arya kill The Waif. As I've pointed out, Arya beating The Waif in combat wasn't realistic to what we've seen of each of them. But her cutting out the lights gave her an advantage due to her training earlier this season, and gave that entire process a purpose. And on a side note, I hate that this show has to kill off every sort of side character. Lady Crane seemed like a great character, as did Brother Ray from the previous episode.

                          I wonder what the rumours that Cersei heard were. The only thing I can think of is the wildfire. That could be interesting. But it's also disappointing to see the Trial by Combat won't happen, especially because The Mountain looked like he could do some real damage in this episode.

                          Next episode looks like the entire thing will be the Battle of the Bastards at Winterfell. So it looks like the next time we'll see any storyline, other than The North, is Episode 10. We haven't seen Bran for a few episodes, lets hope he's already at the Wall or further by now..

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                          • I'm also confused about Arya. The entire Braavos arc seems like filler at this point.. I mean, OK, she got some training. It never seemed very intense. I suppose her cutting the candle and (purportedly) killing the Waif shows some development in that she learned to fight without being able to see -- BUT, wouldn't the Waif have had exactly the same training? Seems dumb to me. Then, Jaqen simply forgives her, and/or makes it seem as though all of this was part of the plan with his forlorn smile -- was it, or was he scared? He honestly looked kind of afraid. Here's an idea - what if Arya lost and the Waif is wearing her face?

                            I definitely think you're onto something about the wildfire. I'm not sure what else it could possibly be. Trial by combat being deprecated is interesting - it's certainly a good move on Tommen's part, but of course comes at the cost of basically betraying Cersei even further. Still, Zombie Mountain isn't done ripping off sparrow heads I would think, and I hope we get to see The Hound eventually cut him down.

                            More is coming.. bastard bowl should be great, and I agree that it's likely to happen next episode. The way this season is going, I have a feeling there is going to be a HUGE reveal/cliff-hanger in the final episode, something about Bran and the white walkers almost undoubtedly.

                            Dany's scene was weird.. will she be pissed at Tyrion I wonder?

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                            • Originally posted by Josh View Post
                              I'm also confused about Arya. The entire Braavos arc seems like filler at this point.. I mean, OK, she got some training. It never seemed very intense. I suppose her cutting the candle and (purportedly) killing the Waif shows some development in that she learned to fight without being able to see -- BUT, wouldn't the Waif have had exactly the same training? Seems dumb to me. Then, Jaqen simply forgives her, and/or makes it seem as though all of this was part of the plan with his forlorn smile -- was it, or was he scared? He honestly looked kind of afraid. Here's an idea - what if Arya lost and the Waif is wearing her face?
                              Well, I guess Arya only got that training because her eyesight being taken away from her was a punishment for using a face to kill Meryn Trant. I am confused about Jaqen's motives as well, though. I think we may not see him or the Faceless Men again this series, which makes me wonder what they had in mind for Arya. I'll post my thoughts in a different post below this one.

                              I definitely think you're onto something about the wildfire. I'm not sure what else it could possibly be. Trial by combat being deprecated is interesting - it's certainly a good move on Tommen's part, but of course comes at the cost of basically betraying Cersei even further. Still, Zombie Mountain isn't done ripping off sparrow heads I would think, and I hope we get to see The Hound eventually cut him down.
                              I'm interested to see how Tommen comes about dying, like the spoilers you read said. He's in over his head, and I don't think even realizes what's going on. He's pretty much sentenced his mother to death through this rule, and given a ton of power to the Faith. He's also pretty much sentenced his brother-in-law to death. And what's Margarey's master plan? We all know she's a huge player in the game and the Rose she drew only backs that up. Episode 10 should be good for that.

                              More is coming.. bastard bowl should be great, and I agree that it's likely to happen next episode. The way this season is going, I have a feeling there is going to be a HUGE reveal/cliff-hanger in the final episode, something about Bran and the white walkers almost undoubtedly.

                              Dany's scene was weird.. will she be pissed at Tyrion I wonder?
                              I've read about perhaps Bran coming through the Wall, and perhaps bringing it down due to the Walker mark thats on him now? It breaks the magic that is The Wall.

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                              • Here's my thoughts on why the show has so much that doesn't seem to make sense anymore: no George RR Martin.

                                If you look at the general consensus of the seasons, Seasons 1-4 are great, while 5 doesn't live up and the jury is out on 6. It's not so much that George isn't writing an episode per season anymore, but I don't think he's giving the show much input. He agreed to let HBO do the series and gave the show runners a brief outline of the series and how it would end. Throughout the first four seasons it was easy enough as the books were there and everything made sense or was going to be tied into something else.

                                Flash forward to Season 5. Although the show hadn't passed the books yet in a lot of ways, they were starting to and also going a different direction (Dorne, some North stuff, Tyrion's went differently, no Lady Stoneheart). I think the shows direction change did irritate George a bit, whether he'll ever admit it or a lot. He recently said if he was running the show Lady Stoneheart would have been on it.

                                Let's go to Season 6 now. I imagine George is pretty upset when he realizes his books won't be out before the show spoils them. But here's the thing ... he holds all the cards. He gave them a few pieces of information, such as the Shireen burn and the Hodor thing. But they said how they had to "squeeze" as much info out of George as possible. He's probably done a lot of Winds of Winter plus knows where this is going. I believe he's intentionally not telling them as he wants to remain faithful to his book reading fanbase, and also doesn't like the direction the show has gone.

                                So, how does this all affect the show? The storylines they created themselves have been pretty bad, I have to say. It's interesting to look at, though. They have a talented team of directors each season, and made episodes like Hardhome from scratch. But in terms of writing and general plot line, I don't believe this is a good team on the show. The storylines they did follow up until the books, such as Arya, they gave it a terrible outcome. There's so much stuff that just doesn't make sense and seems like a waste of time. I don't think there's a bigger twist to it, such as The Waif stole her face and is leaving, I think it's exactly what it appears.

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