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  • That had to be the most expensive Game of Thrones episode ever produced. They had a massive battle at Winterfell, with a ton of cast, horses, giants, etc. But also, what no one was expecting, was the (short-lived) battle at Mereen. And it had 3 dragons. And we finally got to see them in action and what they could do ... they look unstoppable.

    What do you think of the episode, Josh? For some reason, I couldn't get into it. I wanted to see Jon win, as Ramsay was becoming overdue to die, and Jon is a great character who the show needs. I thought it was really well done and interesting. The Bolton shield tactic was really well done, and when Littlefinger saved the day, I thought it was a great shot of the Knights of the Vale wiping the Bolton's clean. For some reason, I wasn't that emotionally attached to it. In theory, the Rickon death is sad. But, honestly, I couldn't care less about him dying. He never really had an identity, was missing for three seasons, and wasn't even shown for much upon his return. The episode seemed pretty predictable, and I think that was a big part of me, personally, not being too invested into it. In general, the show never seems to have any sort of unpredictable twists. Everything was completely straight forward with Arya, and with this. I was hoping someone would turn on the Bolton's.

    Next episode should be good. The preview shows a lot of interesting shots. The most noticeable is the white raven flying, which signals winter has arrived. Loras' trial is also underway, so if Cersei is going to burn the city down, this episode is her chance. Also, Walder Frey toasting that the Frey's and the Lannister's send their regards. Hmmm. We also have Littlefinger speaking to Sansa, and saying "I thought you knew what I wanted." My guess is a marriage? The last couple of things ... Davos is screaming for Melissandre to tell her what she did to Shireen, to Jon. I wonder how that will play out. And Bran appears again, at a Godswood. Maybe we will get the Tower of Joy final scene. Hopefully Dany will come home, too, although I doubt the 100 ships are enough.

    I wonder how they're going to do the final season(s) with a budget. They get around $7M per episode. Even if that rises, for the finale season, it's going to be massive. Wars for the Throne, dragons attacking, Walkers attacking. That's a ton of battles and CGI.

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    • Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post
      That had to be the most expensive Game of Thrones episode ever produced. They had a massive battle at Winterfell, with a ton of cast, horses, giants, etc. But also, what no one was expecting, was the (short-lived) battle at Mereen. And it had 3 dragons. And we finally got to see them in action and what they could do ... they look unstoppable.

      What do you think of the episode, Josh? For some reason, I couldn't get into it. I wanted to see Jon win, as Ramsay was becoming overdue to die, and Jon is a great character who the show needs. I thought it was really well done and interesting. The Bolton shield tactic was really well done, and when Littlefinger saved the day, I thought it was a great shot of the Knights of the Vale wiping the Bolton's clean. For some reason, I wasn't that emotionally attached to it. In theory, the Rickon death is sad. But, honestly, I couldn't care less about him dying. He never really had an identity, was missing for three seasons, and wasn't even shown for much upon his return. The episode seemed pretty predictable, and I think that was a big part of me, personally, not being too invested into it. In general, the show never seems to have any sort of unpredictable twists. Everything was completely straight forward with Arya, and with this. I was hoping someone would turn on the Bolton's.

      Next episode should be good. The preview shows a lot of interesting shots. The most noticeable is the white raven flying, which signals winter has arrived. Loras' trial is also underway, so if Cersei is going to burn the city down, this episode is her chance. Also, Walder Frey toasting that the Frey's and the Lannister's send their regards. Hmmm. We also have Littlefinger speaking to Sansa, and saying "I thought you knew what I wanted." My guess is a marriage? The last couple of things ... Davos is screaming for Melissandre to tell her what she did to Shireen, to Jon. I wonder how that will play out. And Bran appears again, at a Godswood. Maybe we will get the Tower of Joy final scene. Hopefully Dany will come home, too, although I doubt the 100 ships are enough.

      I wonder how they're going to do the final season(s) with a budget. They get around $7M per episode. Even if that rises, for the finale season, it's going to be massive. Wars for the Throne, dragons attacking, Walkers attacking. That's a ton of battles and CGI.
      I agree, the show has become predictable. However, I wonder if a lot of that is because of how much I've looked into it. My girlfriend seems much more surprised by the developments than I am and she hasn't done any of the digging I have and refuses to let me fill her in. I liked the episode in general, but the dragon scenes didn't look quite right to me. At this point I'm so much more interested in the story behind all of it than anything else really. I want to know what GRRM has had up his sleeve this whole time. I hope we get the Tower of Joy scene next episode.

      I'm definitely starting to buy into the idea that the voices the Mad King heard were Bran's, similar to Hodor's.

      I noticed Tyrion dropped the info about the wildfire. I wonder if that was to lead into Cersei igniting the cache or more so to take away from it. When GRRM was more involved they never would have sold something so important so obviously, but as you've pointed out, those kinds of nuances have been lacking the past two seasons..

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      • Originally posted by Josh View Post

        I agree, the show has become predictable. However, I wonder if a lot of that is because of how much I've looked into it. My girlfriend seems much more surprised by the developments than I am and she hasn't done any of the digging I have and refuses to let me fill her in. I liked the episode in general, but the dragon scenes didn't look quite right to me. At this point I'm so much more interested in the story behind all of it than anything else really. I want to know what GRRM has had up his sleeve this whole time. I hope we get the Tower of Joy scene next episode.

        I'm definitely starting to buy into the idea that the voices the Mad King heard were Bran's, similar to Hodor's.

        I noticed Tyrion dropped the info about the wildfire. I wonder if that was to lead into Cersei igniting the cache or more so to take away from it. When GRRM was more involved they never would have sold something so important so obviously, but as you've pointed out, those kinds of nuances have been lacking the past two seasons..
        I agree that the show has become too obvious in that sort of way. It seems like the showrunners think they need to remind everyone of the wildfire under King's Landing multiple times before they do it. Some foreshadowing is good, however, there is overdoing it. They mentioned it earlier this season, then foreshadowed it with the Qyburn scene. That was good enough. I don't get why they're dumbing it down like that, especially with the critical acclaim of the show in the first four seasons. It's definitely one of those shows where you'll pick up on a ton of stuff on a second run-through, like many great shows (such as Breaking Bad and The Sopranos). Neither of them did this...

        I actually enjoyed the episode when I re-watched it. I did skip the Mereen scenes, though. I did think, especially in the moment, it was odd that it took three massive dragons to light one ship on fire. On my second watch I could appreciate the Winterfell battle a lot more. That was actually a really great strategy by Ramsay. He still would have easily have won the battle of he stayed behind Winterfell and fought, but he had a good strategy into getting the Stark side to charge and then surrounded them. The episode had some really good shots, IMO. The closeup of Jon looking like he has no idea what to do when the Bolton army is attacking, and then he takes out his sword and is preparing to die again is pretty epic. Sansa also had some really good shots. Her smile when Knights of the Vale started destroying the Bolton's army was awesome. As was her subtle smile while she was exiting the dungeons in Winterfell.

        The Bran - Mad King thing is actually a really interesting thought. What makes it even more interesting, is that he saw that in his vision. That, to me, could mean either he had a part in it or perhaps it was the show reminding the audience about the wildfire. I can't wait to find out what happens there. Would Bran be stupid enough to make the same mistake twice? It could have been the Three Eyed Raven who made the mistake, though.

        Also, one last note on your post. I'm sure the showrunners know GRRM's idea with ending this entire thing, but I'm not so sure they'll follow it. It's an excellent series and story he's telling, and there's tons of layers and mystery in the story. I think he'll have an extremely layered ending, while I think the show will have a very black and white ending.

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        • That season finale last night may have been my favourite Game of Thrones episode.

          - That King's Landing sequence was incredible. The music and frantic pace definitely gave off a vibe that the show has never done before. Although we both expected Cersei to burn The Sept down, I definitely didn't expect that many major characters to die. Just in that room, the High Sparrow, Margaery, Loras, Mace, Kevan Lannister all are wiped out. Lancel Lannister dies separately, as does Pycelle. Tommen jumps out of the window. And Cersei takes the Iron Throne for herself. It's amazing that going in to this episode, Cersei was in an awful position. She was on trial and likely going to die. By the end of the episode, she was the most powerful person in Westeros. The scary thing is, she didn't even seem to care that much about Tommen dying. Also, it was great to see Septa Unella get what was coming to her, but I wonder what exactly that is. We know how bad The Mountain can be based off his past, and I'm sure Cersei wanted her to suffer in the worst way possible.

          - One of the more minor and easily forgettable things about this episode was Sam's storyline. The Citadel library looks amazing, and I'm excited for him to find out information on past events and also the upcoming war against the White Walkers.

          - We finally got the end of the Tower of Joy scene. Honestly, I thought this was one of the more disappointing parts of the episode. They made it very clear that Lyanna had a baby, who she had to keep safe from Robert Baratheon. They also kind of made it clear that the baby was Jon Snow, with their transition to his scene. First of all, they never made it very clear who the father was. I'm sure a lot of fans are wondering that. We know it's Rhaegar, but they made no mention of him. Secondly, they didn't make it clear whether Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and raped her, or it was more consensual. And finally, was there any sort of a marriage before the baby was born? Because if not, Jon is technically still a bastard, although it still means he came from the line of which the prince that was promised was supposed to come from. And also, a small other detail I was wondering. Where was Howland Reed during all of this?

          - So, Littlefinger's plans were exactly what everyone thought. He wanted Sansa as a wife, and the Iron Throne. Sansa's character seems to have grown a lot this season. Even though Littlefinger saved her and her family's life, she doesn't trust him.

          - The King in the North scene was pretty awesome. Kind of like a parallel to the first season finale where they all proclaim Robb as the King in the North. It was a pretty crazy season for Jon, from where he started to where he ended up. He got revived, left the Night's Watch, rallied some Northern Houses, won the Battle of the Bastards, retook Winterfell and got proclaimed as King in the North. This is huge for the story, also, because Jon is one of the only few people in the series who know what's coming. He'll have a lot more influence now than he would have as the Lord Commander.

          - Arya's scene surprised me. It was pretty awesome, yet gruesome, what she did. Cooking up Walder's sons and serving them to him as a meal, and then revealing herself and slowly killing him. I like the villains in this show, but I don't think anyone could have liked Walder Frey's character. Jaime said it best. I found it very interesting that Arya still had Faceless Man abilities with the power to swap faces. I was thinking to myself, I wonder where she goes from here. She's likely heading North, while Melissandre is heading South. In Season 3, Mel told Arya that they would meet again. Perhaps Mel will save Arya in some sort of way, and gain the trust of Jon back? I like Melissandre's character. I think it would be a shame for her to get killed.

          - Finally, Mereen. We've been waiting six years for this, but Dany is finally heading to Westeros. The breakup with Daario and talk with Tyrion made this episode sort of feel like a series finale, not a season finale. I thought they were extremely well done. She's coming over and she's going to wreak havoc on Westeros. She now has the ships and landing spot for when she arrives. She's attacking with an unreal amount of forces. She has 80,000 unsullied, 100,000 Dolthraki, two of the biggest armies left in Westeros waiting for her with the Dornish army and Tyrell army, and three dragons. Nobody can come close to matching that. Plus she'll have a pretty good start to her small council with Tyrion and Varys.

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          • I haven't seen it, watching tonight. Purposely not reading your post, will reply later..

            I really think we're getting the Tower of Joy scene.. I've been avoiding all spoilers though. Jon is soooo a Targaryen..

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            • Originally posted by Josh View Post
              I haven't seen it, watching tonight. Purposely not reading your post, will reply later..

              I really think we're getting the Tower of Joy scene.. I've been avoiding all spoilers though. Jon is soooo a Targaryen..
              I don't think you'll be upset with the episode, Josh

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              • Oh man, WHAT AN EPISODE! I think that was my favourite episode as well.

                Cersei is ruthless, absolutely ruthless. While we both expected similar events, I did not think Margaery was going to die so soon. But when she started to panic.. wow. Tommen's suicide was interesting.. what a flaky character. Cersei really didn't seem all that upset but now, with no children left at all, we're going to see an even darker side of her. The look between her and Jaime - I think Jaime is going to kill her and fulfill the Volanqar prophecy.

                I think Jon is going to marry Dany. She's coming to Westeros with the intent of marrying into an alliance - Jon is King of the North and they are both Targaryens. Plus they've never met or learned of each other. It's perfect.

                Does Littlefinger have any claim to the throne, or would he absolutely have to take it by force? He doesn't stand a chance either way. Unless.. does he know Dany's coming?

                the best part of the King in the North scene was Sansa's ICE COLD look to Littlefinger. He expected her to become Queen but she orchestrated Jon to be named and that look just said it all.

                Finally we understood the point of Arya's training. That was another satisfying scene.

                Where is Dany landing? I missed that detail.. Also, how long is the journey supposed to take?

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                • Originally posted by Josh View Post
                  Cersei is ruthless, absolutely ruthless. While we both expected similar events, I did not think Margaery was going to die so soon. But when she started to panic.. wow. Tommen's suicide was interesting.. what a flaky character. Cersei really didn't seem all that upset but now, with no children left at all, we're going to see an even darker side of her. The look between her and Jaime - I think Jaime is going to kill her and fulfill the Volanqar prophecy.
                  Apparently Natalie Dormer, who played Margaery, actually requested the death. In fact, she wanted killed off earlier in the season so she could work on a different project she had lined up. I found it very interesting that they wiped out the Tyrell's. On top of that, the Baratheon's are done, the Stark's are done (unless Sansa keeps it alive), the Martell's are done.

                  Is the Volanqar prophecy in the show or just the book? I remember the prophecy about her kids, but did they touch on that as well?

                  I think Jon is going to marry Dany. She's coming to Westeros with the intent of marrying into an alliance - Jon is King of the North and they are both Targaryens. Plus they've never met or learned of each other. It's perfect.
                  That's a good prediction. I feel as if what happens in the rest of Westeros is irrelevant to Jon, however. But he will need more men to fight the dead.

                  What did you think of the Tower of Joy scene?

                  Does Littlefinger have any claim to the throne, or would he absolutely have to take it by force? He doesn't stand a chance either way. Unless.. does he know Dany's coming?

                  the best part of the King in the North scene was Sansa's ICE COLD look to Littlefinger. He expected her to become Queen but she orchestrated Jon to be named and that look just said it all.
                  I don't think he has any sort of claim to the Throne. But then again, he's never had any sort of claim to anything and has done very well for himself. Interested to see where he goes from here.


                  Where is Dany landing? I missed that detail.. Also, how long is the journey supposed to take?
                  I assume Dorne. Varys has them and the Tyrell's as allies, and was sailing back with them. Perhaps Euron meets them at sea and wipes out at least some of her army, though, or else it should be a short war. I don't have all of the numbers, but I'd imagine the biggest armies on the show are the Vale, Martells, Tyrells and Lannisters. Dany will have two of them, plus 100,000 Dolthraki, plus 80,000 Unsullied. Plus three dragons. Some of those need to get wiped out to make this interesting.

                  I don't know how long it will take, but I'd imagine early, early next season. The show doesn't make it's timing available. Varys left Dorne in episode 8, arrived in Dorne in episode 10, and by the end of episode 10 was already on the ship with Dany.

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                  • Winds of Winter (S6 finale) has a perfect 10/10 on IMDB right now, with over 60,000 votes. The only other 10/10 in the series is Battle of the Bastards, which was last week, and it has 111,000+ votes.These episodes actually have something in common: Miguel Sapochnik is the director of both of these episodes. And he's the director of Hardhome, which scored a 9.9 on IMDB.

                    If I'm the showrunners, I'm calling him for every big episode.

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                    • Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post

                      Apparently Natalie Dormer, who played Margaery, actually requested the death. In fact, she wanted killed off earlier in the season so she could work on a different project she had lined up. I found it very interesting that they wiped out the Tyrell's. On top of that, the Baratheon's are done, the Stark's are done (unless Sansa keeps it alive), the Martell's are done.

                      Is the Volanqar prophecy in the show or just the book? I remember the prophecy about her kids, but did they touch on that as well?
                      Hmmm, I'm not sure now actually. That's an interesting omission if it was left out.

                      Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post
                      That's a good prediction. I feel as if what happens in the rest of Westeros is irrelevant to Jon, however. But he will need more men to fight the dead.

                      What did you think of the Tower of Joy scene?
                      I liked the scene, but I would have liked to know what Lyanna whispered to Ned. I heard that the showrunners confirmed Rhaegar is Jon's father - do you know if that's true?

                      Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post
                      I assume Dorne. Varys has them and the Tyrell's as allies, and was sailing back with them. Perhaps Euron meets them at sea and wipes out at least some of her army, though, or else it should be a short war. I don't have all of the numbers, but I'd imagine the biggest armies on the show are the Vale, Martells, Tyrells and Lannisters. Dany will have two of them, plus 100,000 Dolthraki, plus 80,000 Unsullied. Plus three dragons. Some of those need to get wiped out to make this interesting.

                      I don't know how long it will take, but I'd imagine early, early next season. The show doesn't make it's timing available. Varys left Dorne in episode 8, arrived in Dorne in episode 10, and by the end of episode 10 was already on the ship with Dany.
                      Yeah, I was wondering how the hell Varys was getting around so fast. I guess they won't need all season to get to Westeros then.

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                      • Get hyped:

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                        • When people ask you what happened here, tell them the North remembers. Tell them winter came for House Frey.

                          Leave one wolf alive and the sheep are never safe..

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                          • It was a good opening episode. I expect the action to pick up really quick, though, with so little time left.

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                            • Originally posted by Alfie11
                              It was a good opening episode. I expect the action to pick up really quick, though, with so little time left.
                              I really loved that scene. As soon as "Walder" said that bit about leaving one wolf, I knew it would be Arya. But that line about the North remembering and winter coming for House Frey gave me the kind of chills that only this show seems to be able to deliver. So masterfully done.

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                              • Josh, what were your thoughts on E2? I'm pumped to see the long awaited Dany - Jon scenes, but also looking forward to seeing Tyrion and Jon cross patches again.

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