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Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire)

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  • #61
    Re: Game of Thrones - Show Only NO SPOILERS

    I read it to. Since we're being secretive about it, it's about Tyrion's first wife yes?

    Was Shae killed in the book? I feel like perhaps they changed her role to betrayal in the show so that explains Tyrion's decision too.

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    • #62
      Re: Game of Thrones - Show Only NO SPOILERS

      Yeah, it's about Tyrion's first wife. I'm actually not sure they were married, but it was about Tysha.

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      • #63
        Re: Game of Thrones - Show Only NO SPOILERS

        I think at some point the TV producers were like "too many characters" and just started chopping bits out. Tyrion doesn't really NEED the extra motivation to kill his father anyway with how horrible he's been to him in general, and with Shae magically turning up in his bed.

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        • #64
          Re: Game of Thrones - Show Only NO SPOILERS

          Yeah, they were married. I remember when Tyrion first met Shae and he was talking about his former wife. That scene would have been great, but as Matt said Tyrion already had lots of motivation. I think it would certainly add to it, but thinking more it makes sense why they would leave it out. At the end of the day, the books and TV shows are never the exact same and both are pretty great (I haven't read the books...but still).

          It would have been cool if they expanded on the whole Jaime - Tyrion goodbye scene. I liked it but I thought it was too subtle of a goodbye. You look at it...barely anyone likes Tyrion. His father was ashamed of him and openly admits to thinking about killing him as a young child. Cersei is open about her hatred for them. In fact, they hate him so much that they would risk Gregor Clegane's life to have him dead, and he's a very valuable asset to them. His love testified against him and said he plotted to kill Joffrey. His wife wouldn't even sleep with him. Then you have his brother, Jaime. He sought out to the Eeyrie to get Tyrion and it got him captured. He agreed to take over Castley Rock, which he clearly didn't want to do, just to let Tyrion live (albeit on the Wall). He risks being killed just to get Tyrion out alive. I think it should have been a little longer of a scene and a little more emotional, although it wasn't too bad.

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          • #65
            Re: Game of Thrones - Show Only NO SPOILERS

            Also, I'm really happy they killed off Shae. Her character was pretty annoying to begin with, plus she wasn't a good actor. Disappointed they killed Jojen, though. I thought he was a truly unique character despite the fact I can't really get into the entire Bran scenes much. Really disappointed Tywin is dead, although it was a great twist in the plot. I loved his character...he was an absolute boss.

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            • #66
              Re: Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire) - SPOILERS

              I've been reading into a bunch of theories about R'hallor (Lord of Fire/Light) and the "Great Other" (the opposing God, possibly behind the White Walkers). Really interesting stuff!

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              • #67
                Re: Game of Thrones - Show Only NO SPOILERS

                Originally posted by Alfie11
                Also, I'm really happy they killed off Shae. Her character was pretty annoying to begin with, plus she wasn't a good actor. Disappointed they killed Jojen, though. I thought he was a truly unique character despite the fact I can't really get into the entire Bran scenes much. Really disappointed Tywin is dead, although it was a great twist in the plot. I loved his character...he was an absolute boss.
                Have you seen her other work...? It's a different kind of "acting", let's say :P

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                • #68
                  Re: Game of Thrones - Show Only NO SPOILERS

                  Originally posted by Matt the Aussie
                  Originally posted by Alfie11
                  Also, I'm really happy they killed off Shae. Her character was pretty annoying to begin with, plus she wasn't a good actor. Disappointed they killed Jojen, though. I thought he was a truly unique character despite the fact I can't really get into the entire Bran scenes much. Really disappointed Tywin is dead, although it was a great twist in the plot. I loved his character...he was an absolute boss.
                  Have you seen her other work...? It's a different kind of "acting", let's say :P
                  Just looked her up

                  I've read a lot of people think Emilia Clarke is a bad actress...which I don't agree with. I think she's definitely above average. Her scenes are usually cringe-worthy, but I think that's because she's literally done nothing since the dragons came out. She needs to start working her way over to Westeros. Another actress people rag on is Sophie Turner, although I think every season she's improved to the point where she's a good actress. But I can't think of an argument for Shae...she was pretty bad (and now we know why!).

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                  • #69
                    Re: Game of Thrones - Show Only NO SPOILERS

                    But if you think about it, Emilia Clarke is playing a character that is not very likeable. As much as Daenerys has the epic storyline (last of her line, abused by her brother, escaped assassins, master of dragons etc.), when you take those things away the character is that of a lost little girl, slightly spoilt, and all of a sudden with immense power.

                    In the book she is portrayed as much younger than in the TV show. I understand why, given the very adult things she has to go through, but it kind of takes away from that element.

                    And again, Sansa as a character lacks substance. She's the girl that always wanted to go to King's Landing and be a princess. When that doesn't work, what does she become? I think of her as the olden day equivalent of all those girls that go to Hollywood to be models or actresses and end up waiting tables. Sophie Turner looks "wooden" playing Sansa because someone in Sansa's shoes would be just like that. I think she does a very good job capturing that.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Game of Thrones - Show Only NO SPOILERS

                      I agree with everything you just said.

                      It's interesting that Daenerys is pretty young in the books. One thing that I think the show lacks (not sure about books) is the time period of which this is all happening. We don't really know ages...we can guess. But it's hard when you have a 27 year old Emilia Clarke playing a teenager, same with Natalie Dormer (who's 32) playing Maergarey. They do a great job with the makeup and costumes, but when you have ~30 year olds playing teenage characters and don't make a point of their age it's hard to determine.

                      Also, to do with time period, it's tough. We see everything happening but, at least in the show, we have no clue if this is taking place over months, years, etc. And it's going to be even more tricky because I've heard that some story lines are caught up to book #5, while other story lines are still in book 3-4 region. I've heard the three-eyed raven discovery and Bran's story is pretty much caught up to the books, while there's a character from the later parts of Book #3 that has not come into play yet.

                      I don't know, I think the show could take a bit of a hit for Season 5. Just with some difficulties and from what I've heard, hard to follow up the action. It should be interesting in Book 6 and probably Season 6 as they should be taking a new direction with a finish line in sight.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire) - SPOILERS

                        George RR Martin said in an interview recently that he will be cutting back on production/writing for Game of Thrones to work on Winds of Winter. To me, this means the book isn't that far away. There's been a lot of speculation that it will come out around the same time the new season starts so they can promote each other.

                        I'm only as far as the show, so I don't know what this means but I thought you guys would be interested. Arianne Martell was not cast for a role in Season 5, and it seems the Greyjoy's will be pushed back to Season 6.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire) - SPOILERS

                          So Brandon and I have been discussing the idea of who the rightful heir is. I want to post my understanding of it all to see what others think:

                          The way I see it, the rightful heir could be Aegon, Daenerys, Gendry, Jon, or Stannis depending on how you see things.

                          Gendry is Robert's oldest actual son, even though he is a bastard. If he could somehow be acknowledged, and Tommen was proven to not be of Robert's lineage, then Gendry would be the rightful heir - by conquest. Westeros law recognizes the right of conquest, so when the Targaryens were disposed of, and Robert Baratheon was named King, technically the Baratheons became the rightful successors to the throne. In that case, if Gendry is never acknowledged, it goes to the brothers, of which only Stannis remains.

                          But if you discard the Westeros law of right-of-conquest, and prefer the traditional idea that the Targaryens are the only true leaders, as they are the only remaining descendants of the Valyrians, then Aegon, Jon, or Daenerys is the rightful heir. Aegon is one year older than Jon, who in turn is one year older than Daenerys, so if Aegon really is alive, then he is the rightful heir. But if Aegon is truly dead, and Jon is acknowledged as Rhaegar's bastard, then Jon is the heir. If neither are affirmed, Daenerys is heir. Of course, all three are only rightful heirs if you discard the idea of right-of-conquest.

                          Here's how I would break it down:

                          Right of Conquest (legal) Claim:
                          Gendry if acknowledged as Robert's bastard, and if Tommen is discovered to not be Robert's son.
                          Stannis in absence of Gendry being recognized as the true heir.

                          Targaryen (illegal) Claim:
                          Aegon if alive.
                          Jon if acknowledged as Rhaegar's bastard and if Aegon is not discovered to be alive.
                          Daenerys in absence of Aegon or Jon being recognized as the true heir.


                          Thoughts?

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                          • #73
                            Re: Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire) - SPOILERS

                            For me, it's always been Stannis as soon as I found out about the incest.

                            I'm personally cheering for Stannis - I really like the way his character is written. He's kinda like what Ned Stark on steroids would have been. Justice to the point of cutting Davos' fingers off for saving his island from starvation. Determined to the point of literally grinding his teeth. He knows he is a king, even if he also knows in the back of his mind he won't be well suited to it.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire) - SPOILERS

                              I agreed that I thought it would be Stannis from the non-Targaryen side. I don't know the rules fully, but I was always under the impression if the King has no true-born children, it goes to the eldest King's bother.

                              That's a cool comparison, Matt. He does seem to hold a lot of the same beliefs and morals as Ned, except he wants power where Ned sort of shied away from a lot of power. However, I think he is a lot easier influenced than Ned was. It seems like 90% of Stannis' decisions are not made by him, but rather Davos or Melissandre. Heck, even Jon in the season four finale.

                              In the end game, however, I'm not sure I see Stannis sitting on the Throne. Perhaps he won't even be alive.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire) - SPOILERS

                                A non-bastard child takes precedence over a legitimized bastard child, but I think a legitimized bastard takes precedence over a brother. Question is - who could legitimize Gendry with Robert dead? Only the King?

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