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  • #31
    Originally posted by Matt the Aussie View Post
    I mean, it could be that's just my own opinion from the time that I'm remembering but I don't believe it was a shock to anyone that he went to Nashville of all places.

    Bryan Murray definitely cared about the team. We were only a year or two removed from the team that went to the Cup final, and yet it was so bad. I think it was Paddock that got fired early that season and then there was talk that Murray was next...I'm so glad that he stuck around.
    Oh, ok. I was just curious if maybe there was a rumour at the time or something. It was six years ago so I could have easily have forgotten. It definitely wasn't a surprise he went to Nashville, though. I agree.

    It was actually the fourth season after the Cup final (which is somehow 10 years ago..). We fired Cory Clouston at the end of the season and there were rumblings about Murray, however they were most prominent in 2009 when the WJC was in Ottawa.

    For me, I don't know how I feel about Murray's tenure in Ottawa. It's easy to say he inherited a Cup finalist team and only brought them downhill. But the Sens window was clearly closing. He brought in some good prospects over the years but also went through a revolving door of coaches and the entire big line asked for a trade or left under Murray.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post

      ...

      It was actually the fourth season after the Cup final (which is somehow 10 years ago...).
      Dear god, I feel old! 10 years ago now?

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      • #33
        I guess my big question is whether Murray's kindness was his weakness as a GM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by thedaigle1 View Post
          I guess my big question is whether Murray's kindness was his weakness as a GM.
          I also couldn't help thinking this as I read the article.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by thedaigle1 View Post
            I guess my big question is whether Murray's kindness was his weakness as a GM.
            In what ways?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post

              In what ways?
              I know you quoted Owen, and I'ma let him finish, but that article had one of the best examples to his point of all time. One of the best examples of all time!

              They made sure to send him to Nashville. They say they still shopped him around, but if Nashville ended up giving up their 1st - while fully knowing they were the ultimate destination - then I think it's very likely that everyone knew there was a better offer on the table.

              How many players has he given over 9000 chances to? I mean really beating a dead horse on guys, drawing it out to the point that their trade value has completely sunk.

              There's the last Phillips contract.

              Seriously though, I'll let Owen finish. I just saw a great opportunity to revive a long-dead meme. Speaking of beating a dead horse..

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Josh View Post

                I know you quoted Owen, and I'ma let him finish, but that article had one of the best examples to his point of all time. One of the best examples of all time!

                They made sure to send him to Nashville. They say they still shopped him around, but if Nashville ended up giving up their 1st - while fully knowing they were the ultimate destination - then I think it's very likely that everyone knew there was a better offer on the table.

                How many players has he given over 9000 chances to? I mean really beating a dead horse on guys, drawing it out to the point that their trade value has completely sunk.

                There's the last Phillips contract.

                Seriously though, I'll let Owen finish. I just saw a great opportunity to revive a long-dead meme. Speaking of beating a dead horse..
                I agree that the long-love for Phillips and Neil was a concern. But I don't think that would be his weakness as a GM. With Murray as the GM, the Sens missed the playoffs a lot and won one playoff round. I don't think the biggest reasons were because we kept around Phillips and Neil for so long.

                The Fisher thing, ok. But in the article, Fisher clearly says Melnyk pushed for him to get traded to Nashville. Is that really the GMs fault, then? We still got a pretty good return on Fisher. And, while not having any evidence to back this up, I'd like to think this makes Ottawa a more desirable place to play as a player-friendly organization. If you show commitment to the team and community you'll get rewarded. Perhaps stuff like that would be key to the Sens retaining a guy like Karlsson.

                To me, Murray's downfall is his asset management and trading. As a GM he was never able to push his team over the top. He's great as building some sort of foundation, but struggles at putting the icing on the cake.

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                • #38
                  It does feel to me as an outsider that a lot of the negative decisions or limitations of this team are directly linked to Melnyk rather than Murray. No money isn't Bryan's fault.

                  Josh mentions the Phillips contract. Yeah, I get it, he wasn't very good, but he still had a place on this team and I understand the loyalty. Honestly, the only thing that pisses me off about that is we can over-pay Phillips for a few years but when Alfie is up we cheap out?

                  If you think about the money here real quick, we pay an extra 2 mil or so to Alfie for a year or max 2. In return, we get to keep Silf at a damn sight less than the $7M+ we are giving to Ryan. I know that trade was discussed for a while, but there's no way we pull the trigger on that if Alfie stays and is "over-paid".

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                  • #39
                    Good points all-around.

                    We'll always have to wonder about the strings that Eugene is pulling cos he has such a history of meddling.

                    Asset management was a big flaw for Murray. For me it was always the inability to get sufficient returns on assets (Bishop, Spezza, etc.)

                    Whether it was Murray directly or just the organizational philosophy, they accommodated Spezza's trade request, they handed out loyalty contracts to guys like Phillips, they give way too much rope to local kids who crack the roster. I dunno it looks soft to me.

                    HOWEVER, after that Neil ceremony last night I will say that I'm happy to follow a heart-and-soul team like Ottawa that values people. When I think of the Kane coverup in Chicago, the Voynov and Richards situations in LA, or Boston trading away Joe Thornton, I'm glad Ottawa does the right thing and not the sleazy things.

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                    • #40
                      Melnyk has always seemed to meddle a bit when he shouldn't. However, I was hesitant to mention the no-money thing because that seemed to only become an issue during the last couple of years of Murray's tenure. I believe in 2010-11 the Sens were a cap team and the news didn't reach the public until after the lockout shortened season. That did obviously somewhat handicap him in the final few years, though. Heck, it already made Dorion look worse than he was as we gave up a 2nd pick with Zibanejad.

                      I thought of the Alfie situation but I'm still kind of confused as to what happened in that timespan. The entire situation was so weird. Obviously there's some dishonesty in the hockey world ... Alfie wasn't going to just trash the Sens and I'm sure the Sens wouldn't do the same to him. If anyone has a third party view of the story, I'd love to hear that.

                      I agree wirh you Owen about the trades. The Bishop one is more of a hindsight one, as Conacher completely flopped, but it is what it is. The Spezza one looked bad and is bad. You're always in a tough position but you don't have to trade him. Chiasson completely flopped, Nick Paul likely won't amount to much and a second pick doesn't change much.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post
                        ...

                        I thought of the Alfie situation but I'm still kind of confused as to what happened in that timespan. The entire situation was so weird. Obviously there's some dishonesty in the hockey world ... Alfie wasn't going to just trash the Sens and I'm sure the Sens wouldn't do the same to him. If anyone has a third party view of the story, I'd love to hear that.

                        ...
                        I know it would be a limited audience but it would be a great topic for one of those ESPN style documentaries.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Matt the Aussie View Post
                          I know it would be a limited audience but it would be a great topic for one of those ESPN style documentaries.
                          They've done some 30/30 Shorts that were far less substantial. It could be done.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            It's certainly an interesting idea. Unfortunately, how many people in the US know who Daniel Alfredsson is, let alone care about him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post

                              I agree that the long-love for Phillips and Neil was a concern. But I don't think that would be his weakness as a GM. With Murray as the GM, the Sens missed the playoffs a lot and won one playoff round. I don't think the biggest reasons were because we kept around Phillips and Neil for so long.

                              The Fisher thing, ok. But in the article, Fisher clearly says Melnyk pushed for him to get traded to Nashville. Is that really the GMs fault, then? We still got a pretty good return on Fisher. And, while not having any evidence to back this up, I'd like to think this makes Ottawa a more desirable place to play as a player-friendly organization. If you show commitment to the team and community you'll get rewarded. Perhaps stuff like that would be key to the Sens retaining a guy like Karlsson.

                              To me, Murray's downfall is his asset management and trading. As a GM he was never able to push his team over the top. He's great as building some sort of foundation, but struggles at putting the icing on the cake.
                              Good point. I suppose that from what we've heard, a lot of the bad decisions were in fact at Melnyk's insistance and not the route Bryan Murray necessarily preferred.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Matt the Aussie View Post
                                It does feel to me as an outsider that a lot of the negative decisions or limitations of this team are directly linked to Melnyk rather than Murray. No money isn't Bryan's fault.

                                Josh mentions the Phillips contract. Yeah, I get it, he wasn't very good, but he still had a place on this team and I understand the loyalty. Honestly, the only thing that pisses me off about that is we can over-pay Phillips for a few years but when Alfie is up we cheap out?

                                If you think about the money here real quick, we pay an extra 2 mil or so to Alfie for a year or max 2. In return, we get to keep Silf at a damn sight less than the $7M+ we are giving to Ryan. I know that trade was discussed for a while, but there's no way we pull the trigger on that if Alfie stays and is "over-paid".
                                Yup, not to mention possibly drafting Nick Ritchie who already has more points on the year than Bobby..

                                Comment

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