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  • Karlsson for Norris? Coaches think so

    Truth be told, we could all use a little help. You. Me. Everyone. I have an NHL awards ballot to be filled out next week; you have an NHL playoff pool draft coming up. Fourteen NHL franchises have the McEichel Draft Lottery in less than two weeks.
    We’ve all got work to do, or in the case of the lottery teams, much praying.
    So as a public service to you (though, shhhh, don’t tell anyone, but it’s mostly a research tool for me), let me present the (maybe, maybe not) annual Deadly Serious But Not Without a Touch of Irreverence/Whimsy End of Season NHL Coaches’ Poll.
    What follows are five probing end-of-season questions asked of 20 NHL head coaches – 10 in the Eastern Conference and 10 in the Western Conference. And, in all seriousness, thank you to the 20 gentlemen - and that they are - for taking a few moments out of their gut-wrenching, soul-sucking, ulcer-inducing weekends of NHL activity to participate in the DSBNWATOI/WEOS NHL Coaches’ Poll. There’s a special place for all of you in Hockey Heaven, where no one ever gets fired, every day is a Stanley Cup parade and no one ever asks you do a coaches’ poll.
    So here we go:

    ...
    3. Who are your top three for the Norris Trophy as the NHL’s top defenceman?
    This question was nothing more than a desperate cry for help. From me.
    I don’t recall the Norris race being more muddled than it is this year. If Calgary’s Mark Giordano hadn’t been injured, he looked like he was ready to lope to the finish line as an easy Norris winner, but when his season ended after 61 games, it left it wide open.
    You can make a strong Norris case for any of a half dozen defencemen though you could just as easily poke holes in their nomination. It’s been that kind of year, typified perhaps by the coaches’ No. 1 choice – Ottawa’s Erik Karlsson.
    The Senators’ captain struggled mightily through much of the NHL’s first quarter but, like his team, Karlsson has surged to be a dominant if still inconsistent shooting star who leads all blueliners in scoring.
    Nevertheless, Karlsson received eight first-place votes, twice as many as Los Angeles King Doughty (4) and four times as many as the only other two blueliners – teammates Shea Weber and Roman Josi, two apiece – to get multiple first-place votes.
    The Weber-Josi dynamic is fascinating. Weber’s name has been regularly mentioned as a Norris candidate but it’s clear the coaches have been wowed by his Swiss teammate. Weber had a slight edge in balloting over Josi – he showed up on seven ballots to Josi’s six – but it was tight.
    Other defencemen who got one first-place vote included Montreal’s P.K. Subban, injured Flame Giordano, Minnesota’s Ryan Suter, and Chicago’s Duncan Keith. Other defencemen who got at least one vote included Pittsburgh’s Kris Letang, Montreal’s Andrei Markov, Ranger Ryan McDonagh and San Jose’s Brent Burns.
    Once you tally up all the balloting, though, the final Norris standings amongst contending blueliners are as follows: Karlsson, Doughty, Subban, Weber, Josi, and Giordano.
    I’m not sure, after this exercise, I’m any further ahead than I was.
    “You’re right,” one coach commiserated, “the Norris is impossible this year.”

    Read more: http://www.tsn.ca/end-of-season-hono...david-1.249213


    This is interesting, for sure. Personally, I couldn't really see Karlsson getting the Norris if the Sens miss the playoffs. With that being said, a lot of voters could do their voting before the regular season ends. He would get my vote, though. Weber had it but he's struggled mightily in the second half of the season.
    Last edited by Josh; 04-07-2015, 07:16 PM.

  • #2
    He is the fastest D to reach 300 pts in 17 years. I think it is worth talking about him and the trophy in the same sentence.

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    • #3
      His first period last night sure made McKenzie look a little foolish

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Matt the Aussie View Post
        His first period last night sure made McKenzie look a little foolish
        Well, he made the coaches look more foolish than he did McKenzie. But you're right. Karlsson was horrible in the first. He had a strong 45 minutes after that. In fact, he got the puck from Crosby in OT and then marched the puck up the ice and set Stone up for the winner. In this game we saw all off Karlsson - the good, the ugly and the elite.

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        • #5
          I read this and I thought it was very interesting. They took many stats and tired to spin this one in Subban's favour.

          http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/an...lsson-analysis

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Kephryn View Post
            I read this and I thought it was very interesting. They took many stats and tired to spin this one in Subban's favour.

            http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/an...lsson-analysis
            Subban - 7 even-strength goals, 31 even-strength assists, 167 shots, 94 hits, 137 blocks
            Karlsson - 15 even-strength goals, 21 even-strength assists, 287 shots, 92 hits, 89 blocks

            So Subban has 10 more ES assists, 2 more hits, and 48 more bocks.
            Karlsson has 8 more ES goals, and 120 more shots.

            I'll take Karlsson.

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            • #7
              I'll take the better defenseman: Subban.

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              • #8
                The other team can't score on you if the puck is in their end though

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Josh View Post
                  The other team can't score on you if the puck is in their end though
                  My thought exactly..puck possesion is the best defense one could ask for.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jasmine View Post

                    My thought exactly..puck possesion is the best defense one could ask for.
                    I understand where you are coming from by saying this... though if you look at the way Subban is being coached currently. It's clearly defence first then offence. I would argue that part of Price's success this year is the fact he relies on his D. so he can focus on the first save and not give up the rebound.

                    I play defence. I cannot start to tell you how much I hate seeing an offensive D's pull the most retarded shit to try to generate a scoring chance when your number one goal should be defence. It angers me to see Subban skate from coast to coast to just lose the puck...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kephryn View Post

                      I understand where you are coming from by saying this... though if you look at the way Subban is being coached currently. It's clearly defence first then offence. I would argue that part of Price's success this year is the fact he relies on his D. so he can focus on the first save and not give up the rebound.

                      I play defence. I cannot start to tell you how much I hate seeing an offensive D's pull the most retarded shit to try to generate a scoring chance when your number one goal should be defence. It angers me to see Subban skate from coast to coast to just lose the puck...
                      In that case, Doughty should be your pick over Subban. Statistically speaking, Doughty is much better defensively and Subban only beats him offensively.

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                      • #12
                        Subban is a great defenseman, but he's not on Karlsson's level. You can use all of the stats or advanced stats to try to prove otherwise, but the only defenseman on Karlsson's level is Doughty. Much more of a game-breaker. And although Karlsson doesn't play a traditional style defense, what he does is very effective and he's very good defensively.

                        He'd be running away with the Norris if a couple things went right this year. Fist of all, Methot missed the first half of the season. Karlsson had to carry Phillips/Boro for the first half. Since we've had the option, Phillips has been a healthy scratch multiple times and Boro struggles on the third pairing a lot. As soon as Methot came back, Karlsson's play skyrocketed. He's been a +16 in that span. He's also had to play in front of Robin Lehner this year, who has been absolutely horrible. I read that he was the worst goalie in the league at stopping low-quality scoring chances.

                        The true sign of how good Karlsson is? He's always the benchmark. If a defenseman is having a good season, it's how does he compare to Karlsson? Not Subban, Weber, even Doughty. It's Karlsson. Oh, he's having a similar season? He's pretty good then!

                        Karlsson definitely faces some unfair scrutiny, though. There's a ton of media who love to kick him when he's down, or having a bad game. But they won't give Karlsson his credit when he has a good game, or turns around his bad game. Steve Simmons was a great example of this not long ago. He's let everyone know Doughty in his Norris pick, and Karlsson doesn't deserve it. Fair enough. However, he tweets something like, "Karlsson a -3 in the biggest game of the season. Norris? Didn't think so." Karlsson was that period, but what other defenseman gets torn apart for one period? I can't think of any. Anyways, the Sens come back and win, and Karlsson finishes an even plus-minus with an assist on the overtime goal. Steve Simmons doesn't make another peep. To make it even better, Doughty (his Norris pick) finishes -2 in their biggest game of the season ... against the Oilers. Not another peep.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post
                          Subban is a great defenseman, but he's not on Karlsson's level. You can use all of the stats or advanced stats to try to prove otherwise, but the only defenseman on Karlsson's level is Doughty. Much more of a game-breaker. And although Karlsson doesn't play a traditional style defense, what he does is very effective and he's very good defensively.

                          He'd be running away with the Norris if a couple things went right this year. Fist of all, Methot missed the first half of the season. Karlsson had to carry Phillips/Boro for the first half. Since we've had the option, Phillips has been a healthy scratch multiple times and Boro struggles on the third pairing a lot. As soon as Methot came back, Karlsson's play skyrocketed. He's been a +16 in that span. He's also had to play in front of Robin Lehner this year, who has been absolutely horrible. I read that he was the worst goalie in the league at stopping low-quality scoring chances.

                          The true sign of how good Karlsson is? He's always the benchmark. If a defenseman is having a good season, it's how does he compare to Karlsson? Not Subban, Weber, even Doughty. It's Karlsson. Oh, he's having a similar season? He's pretty good then!

                          Karlsson definitely faces some unfair scrutiny, though. There's a ton of media who love to kick him when he's down, or having a bad game. But they won't give Karlsson his credit when he has a good game, or turns around his bad game. Steve Simmons was a great example of this not long ago. He's let everyone know Doughty in his Norris pick, and Karlsson doesn't deserve it. Fair enough. However, he tweets something like, "Karlsson a -3 in the biggest game of the season. Norris? Didn't think so." Karlsson was that period, but what other defenseman gets torn apart for one period? I can't think of any. Anyways, the Sens come back and win, and Karlsson finishes an even plus-minus with an assist on the overtime goal. Steve Simmons doesn't make another peep. To make it even better, Doughty (his Norris pick) finishes -2 in their biggest game of the season ... against the Oilers. Not another peep.
                          Agreed. It's important to note, however, that Subban is still a hell of a defenseman. And yeah, Steve Simmons is such a hack.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Josh View Post

                            Agreed. It's important to note, however, that Subban is still a hell of a defenseman. And yeah, Steve Simmons is such a hack.
                            Absolutely. As are Weber, Josi, Pietrangelo, Ekman-Larsson, Letang, etc.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Alfie11 View Post

                              ...........

                              He's also had to play in front of Robin Lehner this year, who has been absolutely horrible. I read that he was the worst goalie in the league at stopping low-quality scoring chances.
                              I have no stats but I'd believe it in a heartbeat.

                              How many goals went high short side from a bad angle?

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