Habs Acquire All-Star John Scott

[Josh]

From TSN:

The Montreal Canadiens have acquired forward John Scott from the Arizona Coyotes and defenceman Victor Bartley from the Nashville Predators in a three-team trade.
The Preds sent Bartley to the Coyotes for defenceman Stefan Elliott, then Bartley and Scott were moved to Montreal for defenceman Jarred Tinordi and minor league forward Stefan Fournier.
The Habs will send both Bartley and Scott to the St. John's IceCaps of the American Hockey League.

http://www.tsn.ca/habs-acquire-coyotes-scott-preds-bartley-in-three-team-trade-1.423578

[Josh]

Now the Pacific Division has no captain for the All-Star Game, the Coyotes have no all-star representative, and is John Scott still a captain? Who got more votes between him and Jagr?

I bet John Scott will get a hat trick during the game and show off some serious skill at the competition. Not even joking. No matter what it looks like to us, he's still an amazing hockey player, and I think he'll be able to show that. That would be the best ending to this anyways.

[Alfie11]

Well, apparently he won't even get the shot as the NHL seems like they won't be allowing him in now. And according to Bob McKenzie, both the Coyotes and the league itself asked him to pull out of the game before all of this.

I think this is a shame. I know a few times they've done this and the league just rigged the voting by conveniently having everyone under the player get more votes at the last second. But when this actually went through, I considered watching the game. Ok, maybe not the game, but the highlights. The game is for the fans and the fans wanted to see John Scott in it.

[Josh]

Well, apparently he won't even get the shot as the NHL seems like they won't be allowing him in now. And according to Bob McKenzie, both the Coyotes and the league itself asked him to pull out of the game before all of this.

I think this is a shame. I know a few times they've done this and the league just rigged the voting by conveniently having everyone under the player get more votes at the last second. But when this actually went through, I considered watching the game. Ok, maybe not the game, but the highlights. The game is for the fans and the fans wanted to see John Scott in it.

That's so stupid if so. I think the NHL wants to create the illusion that some players are just SO much better than others. And I don't buy it. I've been following statistical trends very closely over the years and it's amazing how players regress to the same averages. So much of it comes down to ice-time. This has been such an interesting season because of how many of the classic stars are totally off their game.

NHL players play roles. They are asked to skate a ton of minutes and score, or to play a chippy transitional game. Yes, some players are better skaters than others, some have better shots, some better vision.. and those sets of qualities are what makes a good coach choose the correct role for a player. But if for an entire season you gave John Scott all of Evgeni Malkin's matchups, linemates, and ice-time, and then did the reverse for Malkin, Scott would finish the year with more points.

Similarly, we call Cowen a terrible hockey player. A pylon. But he would skate circles around us, can probably shoot the puck at least twice as hard and thrice as accurately, and has a hell of a lot more on-ice vision than any of us do. But that narrative does not suit the league or its teams - creating tiers of superstars and stars and regulars and tweeners is MUCH better for business. The NHL doesn't want Scott in because they're afraid that the casual fan wouldn't be able to tell he supposedly doesn't belong (even though, if he does go, I guarantee the broadcasters won't shut up about it every time he touches the puck).

That's my rant.

[Dean Ambrose]

Fuck Bergevin and this management team

[Josh]

Fuck Bergevin and this management team

Why in this case though? It's not as if you guys gave up anything. There's got to be more to come.

The thing is though - the team plays GREAT in front of Price. Making too many changes could screw with that. If Price was healthy and the results were the same, I have to think there would have been more moves.

[Dean Ambrose]

Why in this case though? It's not as if you guys gave up anything. There's got to be more to come.

The thing is though - the team plays GREAT in front of Price. Making too many changes could screw with that. If Price was healthy and the results were the same, I have to think there would have been more moves.

We're regressing under his tenure and NO ONE has fucking developed. People try to argue Subban took the next level because of this regime but that's just plain wrong. He was a rookie who shut down Crosby in the 2010 playoffs and was playing penalty kill because Jacques Martin knew he was fucking good. What do Therrien and Bergevin do? Take away his skill and make him a "better person".

Alex Galchenyuk was moved back to wing today. Good fucking development.

Beaulieu is the only one who's shown any sort of development on the main roster.

Tinordi? Pateryn? Andrighetto? Mishandled horribly. Carr? Back in the minors despite being one of our top scorers in goals/60.

We've needed a top-six winger for the entire duration of Bergevin's reign here. Ryder... then he lets him walk. Then, Vanek. And he walks. Then he goes out and acquires a bunch of 4th line grinders like Mitchell and Flynn. And then this summer... where Lucic, O'Reilly, Saad, Palmieri, Sharp, Kessel, Oshie were all dealt... and he has the balls to go out and say "players like that aren't traded" and "this isn't playstation" and then goes and gets Kassian and Semin for our top-six, both of whom are not even on the fucking team anymore.

Bergevin's only great move was Jeff Petry... but he does not have the balls to make the big move. This whole regime is fucking horrible and overrated.

Let's not even talk about his undying love and loyalty to that idiot, Michel Therrien, and the joke he's turned the organization into by threatening to take away media credentials to those who ask tough questions.

[Josh]

We're regressing under his tenure and NO ONE has fucking developed. People try to argue Subban took the next level because of this regime but that's just plain wrong. He was a rookie who shut down Crosby in the 2010 playoffs and was playing penalty kill because Jacques Martin knew he was fucking good. What do Therrien and Bergevin do? Take away his skill and make him a "better person".

Alex Galchenyuk was moved back to wing today. Good fucking development.

Beaulieu is the only one who's shown any sort of development on the main roster.

Tinordi? Pateryn? Andrighetto? Mishandled horribly. Carr? Back in the minors despite being one of our top scorers in goals/60.

We've needed a top-six winger for the entire duration of Bergevin's reign here. Ryder... then he lets him walk. Then, Vanek. And he walks. Then he goes out and acquires a bunch of 4th line grinders like Mitchell and Flynn. And then this summer... where Lucic, O'Reilly, Saad, Palmieri, Sharp, Kessel, Oshie were all dealt... and he has the balls to go out and say "players like that aren't traded" and "this isn't playstation" and then goes and gets Kassian and Semin for our top-six, both of whom are not even on the fucking team anymore.

Bergevin's only great move was Jeff Petry... but he does not have the balls to make the big move. This whole regime is fucking horrible and overrated.

Let's not even talk about his undying love and loyalty to that idiot, Michel Therrien, and the joke he's turned the organization into by threatening to take away media credentials to those who ask tough questions.

Hmm, yeah, I see your points. I mean, I've thought for a while that Therrien was a foolish coach, even though there were times you could see his work positively in effect. I suppose that one can blame Bergevin FOR Therrien, ultimately. From Therrien's perspective, if the team wins and he gets his contract renewed, why would he change his strategy? But you can also see where Bergevin didn't really have much choice but to give Therrien an extension..

[matchesmalone]

Alfie, it's for the fans, but the thing is, like Bob McKenzie said, unlike the case of Girgensons last year, you got the sense through this whole thing that fans voting for him are actually laughing at or mocking Jon Scott. Until the fake Big Jon Scott twitter account, people generally hated Scott. Remember the Kessel incident? That was idiotic. And he's been involved in a number of other cases of goonery over his career; the kind that shouldn't be laughed about, but that should be taken out of the game.

That's so stupid if so. I think the NHL wants to create the illusion that some players are just SO much better than others. And I don't buy it. I've been following statistical trends very closely over the years and it's amazing how players regress to the same averages. So much of it comes down to ice-time. This has been such an interesting season because of how many of the classic stars are totally off their game.

NHL players play roles. They are asked to skate a ton of minutes and score, or to play a chippy transitional game. Yes, some players are better skaters than others, some have better shots, some better vision.. and those sets of qualities are what makes a good coach choose the correct role for a player. But if for an entire season you gave John Scott all of Evgeni Malkin's matchups, linemates, and ice-time, and then did the reverse for Malkin, Scott would finish the year with more points.

Similarly, we call Cowen a terrible hockey player. A pylon. But he would skate circles around us, can probably shoot the puck at least twice as hard and thrice as accurately, and has a hell of a lot more on-ice vision than any of us do. But that narrative does not suit the league or its teams - creating tiers of superstars and stars and regulars and tweeners is MUCH better for business. The NHL doesn't want Scott in because they're afraid that the casual fan wouldn't be able to tell he supposedly doesn't belong (even though, if he does go, I guarantee the broadcasters won't shut up about it every time he touches the puck).

That's my rant.

This is an interesting post, and not too different from my feelings, although I think you might be overplaying it a bit. It does annoy the hell out of me when people say matter-of-factly that a team's 5th or 6th defenseman, like Cowen, "sucks". If you're even playing regular shifts in the NHL, that means you're among the top 500-1000 or so players in the world. But Josh, I think the case of enforcers is a bit different. Look at Biznasty down in the AHL, still only playing a third or fourth line role. I mean, yes, they're clearly still vastly better hockey players than your average joe playing street hockey, and Biz represented Canada at U18s once upon a time, but I would think practically any AHL or KHL top six forward or top four D could step into the NHL, with Jon Scott's minutes, and put up better numbers / be more valuable players. He's there for a pretty specific purpose.

That said, guys like Lee Stempniak or Ron Hainsey really highlight the point you're trying to make. Put in liminal roles in recent years, they seemed like fringe NHLers, but given more opportunities this year, they've excelled.

On the other, other hand, looking at the other end of the spectrum, I dunno man. Look at Pat Kane this year, or Crosby circa '08, or Datsyuk a few years ago, etc. When the best of the best are on top of their game, they can really take over games, look at the way Kane will hold the puck on his stick for extended periods of time, dangling it just within reach of opponents' sticks, almost taunting them, daring them to try to make a move on it, and if they do, that's when people get made to look silly.

[Josh]

Alfie, it's for the fans, but the thing is, like Bob McKenzie said, unlike the case of Girgensons last year, you got the sense through this whole thing that fans voting for him are actually laughing at or mocking Jon Scott. Until the fake Big Jon Scott twitter account, people generally hated Scott. Remember the Kessel incident? That was idiotic. And he's been involved in a number of other cases of goonery over his career; the kind that shouldn't be laughed about, but that should be taken out of the game.



This is an interesting post, and not too different from my feelings, although I think you might be overplaying it a bit. It does annoy the hell out of me when people say matter-of-factly that a team's 5th or 6th defenseman, like Cowen, "sucks". If you're even playing regular shifts in the NHL, that means you're among the top 500-1000 or so players in the world. But Josh, I think the case of enforcers is a bit different. Look at Biznasty down in the AHL, still only playing a third or fourth line role. I mean, yes, they're clearly still vastly better hockey players than your average joe playing street hockey, and Biz represented Canada at U18s once upon a time, but I would think practically any AHL or KHL top six forward or top four D could step into the NHL, with Jon Scott's minutes, and put up better numbers / be more valuable players. He's there for a pretty specific purpose.

That said, guys like Lee Stempniak or Ron Hainsey really highlight the point you're trying to make. Put in liminal roles in recent years, they seemed like fringe NHLers, but given more opportunities this year, they've excelled.

On the other, other hand, looking at the other end of the spectrum, I dunno man. Look at Pat Kane this year, or Crosby circa '08, or Datsyuk a few years ago, etc. When the best of the best are on top of their game, they can really take over games, look at the way Kane will hold the puck on his stick for extended periods of time, dangling it just within reach of opponents' sticks, almost taunting them, daring them to try to make a move on it, and if they do, that's when people get made to look silly.

You're probably right. I guess I was exaggerating to make a point, and that's that in a gimmick like the all-star game and skills competition, a guy like Scott can probably do the same things Crosby and Toews can do. It's a flavour-of-the-year popularity contest largely based on point totals. Of course Crosby and Toews are highly skilled players, and thus much better suited for their roles than Scott or another enforcer would be in the same role.

[Josh]

So apparently he will play and will remain captain of the Pacific.

[thedaigle1]

So apparently he will play and will remain captain of the Pacific.

Internet to NHL: "Suck our collective balls."

Also, OEL will have his chance as an all-star. Just a matter of time. I believe he said something to the effect of being glad the whole Coyotes team will have the break off to recharge. Maybe John Scott can take Karlsson's spot too? Erik has been playing 30 minutes a night and probably needs to put his feet up for a few days.

[Josh]

Now the Pacific Division has no captain for the All-Star Game, the Coyotes have no all-star representative, and is John Scott still a captain? Who got more votes between him and Jagr?

I bet John Scott will get a hat trick during the game and show off some serious skill at the competition. Not even joking. No matter what it looks like to us, he's still an amazing hockey player, and I think he'll be able to show that. That would be the best ending to this anyways.

Dammit. So close to getting that hat-trick!