Don Cherry Fired

[Josh]

Don Cherry has been fired from Hockey Night in Canada for the following comments:

“You people ... you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey, at least you can pay a couple bucks for a poppy or something like that," Cherry said, with Coach’s Corner co-host Ron McLean looking on. "These guys paid for your way of life that you enjoy in Canada, these guys paid the biggest price."

https://www.tsn.ca/rogers-sportsnet-announces-firing-of-don-cherry-1.1396208

[matchesmalone]

Those goddamn mother fuckers. I've always seen Cherry as kind of a goof, but he's very amusing to me. He should start a podcast or some shit.

[Josh]

I feel like they pounced on an opportunity to fire him. What he said certainly carries a bigoted implication, but it's not racist as some people are implying. He's not targeting a particular group, he's simply saying that, in his opinion, newcomers to our country should also honour the tradition that is wearing a poppy leading up to Remembrance Day.

[Matt the Aussie]

I posted on Twitter about this. As an immigrant I am disturbed with the implication that somehow we, as a whole group, are to be shamed somehow over a poppy.

I think had he apologized everyone would have moved on and said, "Don's just being Don again". He's come out and said though that he's refused to apologize and stands by what he said. He had to go at that point, no question in my mind.

[Josh]

I posted on Twitter about this. As an immigrant I am disturbed with the implication that somehow we, as a whole group, are to be shamed somehow over a poppy.

I think had he apologized everyone would have moved on and said, "Don's just being Don again". He's come out and said though that he's refused to apologize and stands by what he said. He had to go at that point, no question in my mind.

Do you mind if I embed your Twitter post(s) here?

I'm conflicted about this. I understand where you're coming from. I also know plenty of Canadian-born people who don't wear a poppy, for numerous different reasons. He's wrong, and there's no two ways about that. However, I still think this was an excuse to shed his salary, as they've been cutting back big time. And I don't see his rant as malicious, just an old man's clumsy buffoon-like way of making a point about supporting something he cares deeply about, and was taught to hold as a Canadian value. He should have just apologized and clarified what he meant.

[matchesmalone]

I posted on Twitter about this. As an immigrant I am disturbed with the implication that somehow we, as a whole group, are to be shamed somehow over a poppy.

I think had he apologized everyone would have moved on and said, "Don's just being Don again". He's come out and said though that he's refused to apologize and stands by what he said. He had to go at that point, no question in my mind.

Lol, I don't think you were who he had in mind...

[Matt the Aussie]

Lol, I don't think you were who he had in mind...

Yes I'm fully aware he didn't have me in mind when he said it. That's what makes his comments racist in my mind. He's clearly targeting a certain TYPE of immigrant, and it's not white men who speak fluent English. And that's despite the fact that I personally did not wear a poppy.

He referenced both downtown Toronto and Mississauga in his comments for the same reason.

[matchesmalone]

Yes I'm fully aware he didn't have me in mind when he said it. That's what makes his comments racist in my mind. He's clearly targeting a certain TYPE of immigrant, and it's not white men who speak fluent English. And that's despite the fact that I personally did not wear a poppy.

He referenced both downtown Toronto and Mississauga in his comments for the same reason.

Well we're in agreement there, but that is likely it.

I lived in Ontario for a year, and I understand the way racism works there vs. here in Saskatchewan. In my experience, racism is mostly highly subtle and covert in Ontario. In Saskatchewan (minus University campuses and church gatherings) people are just outright and up front about it. The kind of thing that Cherry said is pretty commonplace around here. While I was there, I always felt that the racism is worse in Ontario because it is so insidious and people generally don't even realize they're doing it.

But we're starting to feel the surge of foreigners here, and we went out in droves to vote conservative. My own personal experience is, in my line of work, I've worked with a lot of Filipino people over the years, and always got along splendidly with them. They have been eager to learn about and immerse themselves in Canadian/Western culture. Now in the past couple years, there's a sudden mass influx of Indians. Currently I'm the only white person at my job. My coworkers are two Filipinos and ten Indians. And I mean whatever, I get along with most of them fine - some I like a lot, some I don't care for, same as any other group of people.

But the biggest thing I've noticed, is at the root of it the same basic thing Cherry complained about - almost all of them have no interest in adopting Western culture. Try to talk to them about movies or TV or music, good luck. They know Bollywood movies and Indian music. I suppose the ones who are somewhat into Western culture are the ones who have been here at least a few years. But the problem is there is no impetus to immerse. They live together in certain areas of town or with roommates amongst themselves, they hang out amongst themselves, speak their own languages amongst themselves.

[Matt the Aussie]

Well we're in agreement there, but that is likely it.

I lived in Ontario for a year, and I understand the way racism works there vs. here in Saskatchewan. In my experience, racism is mostly highly subtle and covert in Ontario. In Saskatchewan (minus University campuses and church gatherings) people are just outright and up front about it. The kind of thing that Cherry said is pretty commonplace around here. While I was there, I always felt that the racism is worse in Ontario because it is so insidious and people generally don't even realize they're doing it.

But we're starting to feel the surge of foreigners here, and we went out in droves to vote conservative. My own personal experience is, in my line of work, I've worked with a lot of Filipino people over the years, and always got along splendidly with them. They have been eager to learn about and immerse themselves in Canadian/Western culture. Now in the past couple years, there's a sudden mass influx of Indians. Currently I'm the only white person at my job. My coworkers are two Filipinos and ten Indians. And I mean whatever, I get along with most of them fine - some I like a lot, some I don't care for, same as any other group of people.

But the biggest thing I've noticed, is at the root of it the same basic thing Cherry complained about - almost all of them have no interest in adopting Western culture. Try to talk to them about movies or TV or music, good luck. They know Bollywood movies and Indian music. I suppose the ones who are somewhat into Western culture are the ones who have been here at least a few years. But the problem is there is no impetus to immerse. They live together in certain areas of town or with roommates amongst themselves, they hang out amongst themselves, speak their own languages amongst themselves.

I'm not sure where you lived in Ontario? Firstly, perhaps not in Toronto or Ottawa but in rural Ontario where I am (small town west of KW) people have no problems being overtly racist to your face. The prevailing attitude here is that it's not white Europeans (or Australians for that matter) that are the problem. Indeed, KW has a long history as a centre of German, Polish and even Ukrainian immigration (Kitchener's former name was Berlin until the war). Instead it is Middle Eastern or Indian Subcontinent or East Asian populations that are of concern.

I've even had people say racist things about immigrants to me, then I point out I am an immigrant too, and they will say "well OF COURSE I didn't mean you...".

While I do understand the point you are making, I don't feel people should be forced to conform to just one way of life in Canada. Certainly if the goal is to assimilate through sharing hockey, which is a big part of the stereotypical Canadian culture, comments such as those made by Cherry on national television are not helping. Likewise, ranting at "you people" to wear a poppy isn't particularly inclusive either.

Can I ask what field you work in? I'm genuinely curious as to what field would have such a diversified employ in Saskatchewan?

[Matt the Aussie]

Do you mind if I embed your Twitter post(s) here?

I'm conflicted about this. I understand where you're coming from. I also know plenty of Canadian-born people who don't wear a poppy, for numerous different reasons. He's wrong, and there's no two ways about that. However, I still think this was an excuse to shed his salary, as they've been cutting back big time. And I don't see his rant as malicious, just an old man's clumsy buffoon-like way of making a point about supporting something he cares deeply about, and was taught to hold as a Canadian value. He should have just apologized and clarified what he meant.

Yes you can if you like. I got a little political in there but nothing too offensive I don't think...

I agree, he should have apologized, and I also agree there was a convenience factor for Sportsnet given they are hurting for money. Once he chooses not to apologize and essentially "double-down" on the message, it became clear to Sportsnet that public opinion was going to back them up in letting him go, in a way that firing him in the off-season would not have. Even the title sponsor of the segment came out and said he needed to go.

[Josh]

Yes you can if you like. I got a little political in there but nothing too offensive I don't think...

I agree, he should have apologized, and I also agree there was a convenience factor for Sportsnet given they are hurting for money. Once he chooses not to apologize and essentially "double-down" on the message, it became clear to Sportsnet that public opinion was going to back them up in letting him go, in a way that firing him in the off-season would not have. Even the title sponsor of the segment came out and said he needed to go.

Can't actually; your Twitter account is protected.

[matchesmalone]

I'm not sure where you lived in Ontario? Firstly, perhaps not in Toronto or Ottawa but in rural Ontario where I am (small town west of KW) people have no problems being overtly racist to your face. The prevailing attitude here is that it's not white Europeans (or Australians for that matter) that are the problem. Indeed, KW has a long history as a centre of German, Polish and even Ukrainian immigration (Kitchener's former name was Berlin until the war). Instead it is Middle Eastern or Indian Subcontinent or East Asian populations that are of concern.

I've even had people say racist things about immigrants to me, then I point out I am an immigrant too, and they will say "well OF COURSE I didn't mean you...".

While I do understand the point you are making, I don't feel people should be forced to conform to just one way of life in Canada. Certainly if the goal is to assimilate through sharing hockey, which is a big part of the stereotypical Canadian culture, comments such as those made by Cherry on national television are not helping. Likewise, ranting at "you people" to wear a poppy isn't particularly inclusive either.

Can I ask what field you work in? I'm genuinely curious as to what field would have such a diversified employ in Saskatchewan?

Haha it doesn't feel very diversified. I work with adults with disabilities. Specifically my title is development services worker.

Yeah you're right though, I guess big cities vs rural areas is a better divider of the political spectrum than East vs West or Coasts vs South/Midwest. I lived in St. Catharines, well Thorold. That's a good example right there. St. Catharines is a university town, very liberal. Right over in small town Thorold people are pretty openly racist.

[Josh]

Haha it doesn't feel very diversified. I work with adults with disabilities. Specifically my title is development services worker.

Yeah you're right though, I guess big cities vs rural areas is a better divider of the political spectrum than East vs West or Coasts vs South/Midwest. I lived in St. Catharines, well Thorold. That's a good example right there. St. Catharines is a university town, very liberal. Right over in small town Thorold people are pretty openly racist.

Right on. One of my best friends is a DSW and he's got the perfect personality for it. Only career he's been able to hold down. It takes a special kind of person to be able to do it well and with continued passion.

[Matt the Aussie]

Haha it doesn't feel very diversified. I work with adults with disabilities. Specifically my title is development services worker.

Yeah you're right though, I guess big cities vs rural areas is a better divider of the political spectrum than East vs West or Coasts vs South/Midwest. I lived in St. Catharines, well Thorold. That's a good example right there. St. Catharines is a university town, very liberal. Right over in small town Thorold people are pretty openly racist.

Good for you man. I echo what Josh said, doing that work is not for everyone so I appreciate your service to those in need.

Similar to St. Catharines/Thorold, I live in New Hamburg. I believe the population is similar to Thorold, about 15,000. It's about 20 minutes from KW, Waterloo of course is also a big college town and has a significant East Asian population during the school year. More and more the area is becoming a suburb or commuter town to KW. Yet the long term residents here are extremely conservative and you will hear comments like "just a matter of time before we all have to wear turbans/head scarves and practice Sharia law" and other such nonsense. Local reaction to Cherry's firing has been negative to say the least. My Facebook is filled with "whataboutisms" referencing Trudeau in blackface, for example.

Full disclosure, I am a group insurance Underwriter, hence my interest in demographics - I work with it every day. Your field is one that does typically attract foreign workers, so I'm sure you've had more than the typical amount of exposure to this than others in your region. I do believe your anecdote and I have seen similar behaviour both here and back in Australia where I grew up. My question is, why is this a problem?

At least in my experience, I have not had any immigrant to Canada come up to me and start forcibly imposing their culture/beliefs/religion/food/hobbies etc. onto me? Why should we be imposing ours on them?

[matchesmalone]

Right on. One of my best friends is a DSW and he's got the perfect personality for it. Only career he's been able to hold down. It takes a special kind of person to be able to do it well and with continued passion.

Haha I dunno about all that. I just love doing it. It's a lot of fun for me. Like your friend, I just can't imagine myself doing anything else. Also I'm slightly autism spectrum myself, so I'm actually kinda more comfortable around people with disabilities.

They've asked me a couple times to apply for management positions when they're open and I'm like "fuck that." Don't wanna sit in an office, do meetings and all that bullshit for just an extra couple bucks an hour" Also I'd have to be on call, which is not practical given how often I'm high. But with my education and experience I think eventually I might do a masters in disability studies (York has a really cool one year program) and try to get a job teaching DSW at colleges.

Good for you man. I echo what Josh said, doing that work is not for everyone so I appreciate your service to those in need.

Similar to St. Catharines/Thorold, I live in New Hamburg. I believe the population is similar to Thorold, about 15,000. It's about 20 minutes from KW, Waterloo of course is also a big college town and has a significant East Asian population during the school year. More and more the area is becoming a suburb or commuter town to KW. Yet the long term residents here are extremely conservative and you will hear comments like "just a matter of time before we all have to wear turbans/head scarves and practice Sharia law" and other such nonsense. Local reaction to Cherry's firing has been negative to say the least. My Facebook is filled with "whataboutisms" referencing Trudeau in blackface, for example.

Full disclosure, I am a group insurance Underwriter, hence my interest in demographics - I work with it every day. Your field is one that does typically attract foreign workers, so I'm sure you've had more than the typical amount of exposure to this than others in your region. I do believe your anecdote and I have seen similar behaviour both here and back in Australia where I grew up. My question is, why is this a problem?

At least in my experience, I have not had any immigrant to Canada come up to me and start forcibly imposing their culture/beliefs/religion/food/hobbies etc. onto me? Why should we be imposing ours on them?

This field does attract foreigners, but I've been doing it ten years and have watched the demographics change. When I first started the staff was almost entirely white and native. A couple Africans and Filipinos out of 30+ staff in the organization.

The last place I worked before moving to Ontario three years ago was still mostly white, but there were more foreigners of various sorts. When I moved back here and started at a new place, there was five white, three Filipino and four Indian. Now is is almost exclusively Indian.

I didn't say the lack of acculturation was a problem. Just something I noticed, and I can see how for folks like Cherry this would boil up and pop off under the guise of honoring veterans.

I'd prefer not to go into detail on my opinion on the matter. But again just from my personal experience, when everyone I work with is Indian, I often find we have very little in common and don't talk much. I used to be pretty close with a lot of my coworkers.

On the other hand, I had a second job at a different organization for a while last year. Staff there was predominantly white, and I found myself annoyed that all they ever talk about is pop culture. Like, OK, Marvel movies, awesome, I get it. I guess I can just never be happy.