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  • matchesmalone
    replied
    Originally posted by matchesmalone View Post
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    OK, a few things.

    I don't see any possible way Dale Talon moves the first overall pick for Spezza. Why trade a likely future superstar, who is just 18, for a borderline elite now 30 year-old? And Tallon, of all people, who picked Kane first overall and Toews third overall, knows just how valuable those first couple picks are.

    Also, I wouldn't take Nylander with the first pick. His talent-level and potential are enormous. There's a chance this kid could be the next Peter Forsberg. But how much of a chance? That's a lot harder to say. Bennett, Draisaitl, Ekblad and Reinhart are all safer picks with some elite potential. Bennett is a lock to play in the NHL, but whether it will be as a Martin Lapointe or a Pat Verbeek, I'm not sure. I've seen Draisaitl play a lot, and I would very seriously consider picking him first overall. He reminds me of Matt Duchene, but I've heard a few comparisons to Anze Kopitar. The Kopitar one seemed strange, considering he's not as tall as Kopitar, but after watching a bunch more L.A. games this spring, I can definitely see it. Ekblad looks like the next Brent Seabrook, but teams are so hesitant to pick defensemen first overall these days, and rightfully so. This is why I think Sam Reinhart will end up going first overall. The big edge he has, is that like all of the very best forwards in the NHL today - Crosby, Toews, Datsyuk, Kopitar, Getzlaf - he is going to be a great defensive forward, on top of being elite offensively. Remember who Team Canada had out as the lone forward on 3 on 5s at the WJCs last year, and at just 17.

    As for Lazar, I would argue that he did dominate. I think a lot of people who didn't follow the Oil Kings this year don't realize that Lazar and Samuelsson were almost always used on separate lines in order to spread the offense. And it worked. Lazar's line was used largely in a defensive role, and yet he still was third in the league in +/- when he left for the World Juniors. And his point totals jumped from 61 in 72 games to 76 in 58, which projects to 94 points over a full 72-game season. And most of that time missed was for World Juniors, where at just 18, he was already arguably Canada's best player. His playoff scoring doesn't look so impressive at first glance, but a lot of his goals were big goals at key times in big games. His shorthanded go-ahead goal in game seven against Portland, his triple overtime winner in the Mem Cup semi-final, and during the regular season he was just ninth in the league in goals, but third in game winning goals; kid has clutch written all over him.

    The big question is, should Lazar play in the NHL next year? For me, the answer would be no, unless he absolutely astonishes at camp and steals a spot. The big thing Lazar needs to work on right now is size and strength. After just winning a Memorial Cup, and having gone through three straight years of full four rounds of WHL playoffs, he's never had and again this year won't have a full summer to rejuvenate from the long season and spend a lot of time in the gym. As long as they still have Lazar and Jarry, Edmonton will be a very good team next year, but losing Samuelsson and Griffin Reinhart should ensure they won't be in the Mem Cup again, which would give him a full summer of bulking up next year. So I'd say let him go back to Edmonton, become captain there and he'll also captain Canada's World Junior team (that's not a prediction, by the way, but a guarantee), let him have a year as the sole major offensive weapon; it will be a great chance for him to round out his game by working at adding the one aspect to his offensive game that he takes a lot of criticism for lacking - the ability to make those around him better. He already showed hints of it this year, with two of his regular linemates over-performing: Mitch Moroz, who's never been more than a mucker and grinder, managed 35 goals, and an enormous breakout from his most regular linemate, 18 year old Brett Pollock, who jumped from 4 points in 40 games to 55 in 71.
    Yikes on Nylander : Forsberg comparison. That's embarrassing. Good call on Draisaitl for first overall. And Ekblad : Seabrook, not such a terrible comparison. Way off stylistically, but maybe not so much as a far as upside and value. If only the Sens had listened to me and sent Lazar back to junior, he'd be a star in the NHL right now.😏

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  • Alfie11
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    If Murray expects young players to fill the void, I think we're in for a long season. I'm not saying MacDavid bad, of course, but not too great of a year. The only reason we won some games last year is because we out-scored our problems, which is our defense. I don't expect it to be a whole lot different, unless Phillips becomes wine and Cowen has a huge bounce back year, and Methot gets back to how he was his first year here.

    The 10 teams Spezza has on his list are leaking out. Unfortunately, Toronto and Montreal are not on the list. Why do I say unfortunately? Because, it would eliminate two teams he wasn't getting traded to in the first place...Spezza was smart about that. He doesn't want to go to Montreal or Toronto or anywhere else in Canada for that matter.

    Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, New York Islanders, Columbus, Nashville, Florida. Two teams left on that list.

    And apparently the Dallas Stars are interested in Spezza now. Anaheim, Dallas and St. Louis are very interested.

    Leave a comment:


  • matchesmalone
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    If Spezza's gone who cares? The whole purpose of Hemsky was to find a skilled winger to play with Spez. Would've been interesting to see what they could have done with a full year together, but I wouldn't re-sign him now, not for that price anyway.

    To me, it legit looks like 3 of our top 6 forwards will not be returning. Will be interesting to see what Murray does this summer. But one thing is for certain, he can't sit pretty. Moves need to be made. Big ones. Bonino, Palmieri, Stewart, Moulson, Brouwer, Vrbata, Hornqvist, Craig Smith, Boedker, Brian Campbell and Dan Boyle should be primary targets.

    Reminds you a little of Montreal a couple years ago when they cleaned house and signed a bunch of bug money free agents. Except I'm hoping we do most of ours by trade rather than free agency. We have Spezza plus a bunch of good assets, most notably Stone, iff the right player became available. One free agent will probably be necessary. If so, let it be Moulson, Vrbata or Boyle.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alfie11
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    Originally posted by Matt the Aussie
    Where would you price Hemsky? I'm thinking 4, maybe 4.5?
    Yeah, probably $4M-$4.25M. Injury history plus he hasn't put up over 50 points since 2008-09. He looked good in a 20 game sample size but I've seen others do the same and not play well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt the Aussie
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    Where would you price Hemsky? I'm thinking 4, maybe 4.5?

    Leave a comment:


  • Alfie11
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    It appears the Sens offered Hemsky 3 years $10M (per Bob McKenzie), while Hemsky wanted $5.5M. I don't believe we found out the term Hemsky wanted...probably four years. But that's a huge difference, no wonder the talks just broke off. McKenzie says we might trade him for a pick.

    Leave a comment:


  • matchesmalone
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    You're probably right Alfie, trading Phillips would be a terrible PR move, and while I think he does still have value, it would probably be more of a deadline day move, to a young playoff team in need of experience on the back end. Maybe Borowiecki or Gryba would be more appealing to Tim Murray and the Sabres. I'd prefer not to move Wiercioch if at all possible. A lot of weaknesses in his game nihjt.now but the potential upside is too intriguing. Of Buffalo's trio of young stud defensemen - Jake McCabe, Ristolainen and Zadorov - only maybe Ristolainen is NHL-ready, and I wouldn't be surprised if all three stay in the AHL. With McDavid/Eichel the prize, one more year of talking might be the best possible plan for the Sabres. If this is indeed the case, Gryba/Borowiecki would be a good fill-in for the meanwhile and provid some more of that grit and toughness every rebuilding team needs to keep up fan and team morale, and Stone would help accelerate the rebuild as he's ready to step in this year and should be a top six forward within three years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alfie11
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    I like your lineup as well, Matches. Unfortunately, I can't see Phillips getting dealt. He's a good person and has given a lot to the team, but he's old, slow and his decision making has lost a step. He provides leadership and experience but that's about it at this point. I think he was more of a liability than an asset with his play last year, and there's still two more years to go. I can't see a team, other than a contender when he's on the final year of his deal, preferring him over a rookie defenseman with an ELC.

    As Matt said, letting Volchenkov go was actually a great decision by Murray. He wanted way too much for his role. He was an above average defensive defenseman, but he wasn't close to the best in the NHL. He could block a lot of shots and hit, but there's a lot more to defense than that. Plus his style leads him to wear down sooner rather than later.

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  • Matt the Aussie
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    ^^^ I like your plan a lot matches. Hoping for something similar.

    As much as I like him, I don't see how we're gonna need Phillips for 2 more years. When we got rid of Volchenkov it hurt, but his play in NJ has proven that to be the correct decision.

    Leave a comment:


  • matchesmalone
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    Since the original idea of this thread was putting together the best possible budget roster, I'll take a shot at it.

    I would trade Spezza to Anaheim for Nick Bonino, Kyle Palmieri and a close to NHL-ready top prospect - so one of Rickard Rakell, William Karlsson or Nick Kerdiles. I can't see them giving up Rakell, and we're stacked with prospects on the right side anyway. I really like Karlsson's offensive potential, but if we're gonna have Turris, Zibanejad and Bonino at center for the foreseeable future, that leaves the left wing as our position of organizational need, so I'd try to get Kerdiles... Imagine what Don Cherry would say: trading an Ontarian - a Torontonian, no less! - for three Americans... :shock:

    Of course the other option would be to just ask for a first round pick. Our own 2014 pick (10th) would be great, or Anaheim's own pick in 2015 (24th), I'd be hesitant to take Anaheim's 2014 pick, but if it's the best we can get, I'd take it. I can't really guess who our scouting staff might like or who might be available, but Kevin Fiala, Adrian Kempe and Dylan Larkin are three players I really like who might be available at 24th. At the U18s this year Craig Button compared Fiala to Henrik Zetterberg. And 12 points in 17 SHL games by a 17 year-old is ridiculous! He also led Swiss U18 and U20 WJCs in scoring, and was one of those rare players to play in a World Championship, U20 and U18 WJCs all in the same year (trivia question: how many others can you name?).

    Whatever the third piece, I would then try to make it up to Don Cherry by bringing in two Torontonians - first flip Mark Stone and Chris Phillips to Buffalo for Chris Stewart (throw in a pick or two one way or the other if need be). Mark Stone is an excellent young NHL-ready player and I know Tim Murray was fairly high on him. Phillips would play a similar role to the one he's played in Ottawa the past couple of years, providing a safe, sound, calming presence on the blueline and helping teach Tyler Myers and Buffalo's other young defensemen the defensive side of the game.

    Next sign Matt Moulson to fill that immediate need on the left wing. There are some other free agents I'd be very interested in, most notably Ryan Callahan, Jussi Jokinen and Radim Vrbata. But I don't see Vrbata or Jokinen leaving their current teams, and I can't see Callahan actually going to Ottawa. Moulson wasn't a great fit in Minnesota, so I think he'll test the market, but there will be at least a dozen teams with strong interest, and while we would have as selling points playing close to home and getting to play with Erik Karlsson, there are a dozen other teams who can sell themselves as playoff teams and possible Cup contenders right now, so we're going to have to overpay, which I'd be fully willing to do. It would probably cost something upwards of 36 million over six years.

    I'd leave the defense otherwise as is, and let Borowiecki, Claesson and Wideman challenge Gryba and Wiercioch for spots, and then re-sign Lehner to a short-term deal for about 1.75-2 million (See Rask's previous contract for precedent). The resulting roster would be big, tough, gritty, and also quite skilled. The only forwards under 6' would be Palmieri (who recorded over 90 hits last year despite his size) and Condra. This is the type of team Bryan Murray likes, and it's the type of team that wins in today's NHL; just look at all of the regular contenders over the past few years, from Anaheim to San Jose to Chicago, but especially Boston and L.A. If we're gonna be serious contenders we need to keep up.

    People might worry about the defense being left the same after all the turnovers and inability to exit our zone last year, but for one, they'll be another year older and more experienced, and also I think a lot of that can be blamed on the forwards. With a bigger and tougher group of forwards - rather than pure skill players like Spezza, Michalek and Hemsky who don't win a lot of battles and so need to get the puck in opportune positions in order to do anything useful with it - the defense could be a lot more focused on just flipping/chipping the puck out/in, and using the boards rather than having to try to pass it tape to tape every time. Ceci and Wiercioch will be another year further in their developments, and with the pairs the way I have them, there would be at least one good puck-mover on every pair. So without further ado:

    MacArthur - Turris - Ryan (line 1a)
    Moulson - Zibanejad - Stewart (1b)
    Palmieri - Bonino - Condra (defensive shutdown line, with a little offensive upside)
    Greening - Smith - Neil (maybe the hardest-hitting checking line in the NHL)

    Methot - Karlsson
    Cowen - Ceci
    Wiercioch - Gryba

    Anderson
    Lehner

    And there is my roster for about 56.8 million according to CapGeek. I know it seems strange to play the two players we get for Spezza on the third line, but look at it this way: Palmieri only played under 12 minutes per game for Anaheim last year; he has a lot of promise, but we'd want him to start low on the depth chart and work his way up. He also didn't play any PK in Anaheim, and I think he has the potential to, so I'd play him with Bonino and Condra in a checking role to start so he could learn that side of the game. I'd expect him to be up to 15 mins a game by the end of the season: 12-13 ES, 1-1:30 PP and 1-1:30 SH. Bonino only played about 11 minutes per game even strength last season, and I wouldn't expect him to go much over that this year, maybe 12-13, but add 2:30 on the PP and 2 on the PK and he's still playing 16:30-17:30 a game.

    Zibanejad is more than ready for a full-time second line center role, and I'm expecting at least 50-60 points from him this year, maybe more if playing on a line between Moulson and Stewart and getting top powerplay time. Condra needs to have an incredible year, or he is replaced by Lazar the following season. In fact, even if he does, there might just be no holding Lazar at bay; but barring a ridiculous training camp from Lazar this fall, Condra has one more year to earn himself another one-way NHL contract here or elsewhere, so I expect a strong season from him.

    Our PK should be improved with a lot of options at forward: Turris-MacArthur, Bonino-Condra, Greening-Smith, Stewart, and hopefully Palmieri. Even without Phillips, I'm comfortable with any of Methot, Cowen, Gryba, Karlsson or Ceci killing penalties. Wiercioch needs to work on using his size better, or he'll end up the next Filip Kuba.

    The PP units might look like:
    MacArthur - Turris - Ryan
    Zibanejad - Karlsson

    Moulson - Bonino - Stewart
    Wiercioch - Ceci

    Where the forward units would play roughly equal minutes, Karlsson would play the majority of all minutes, and Ceci, Wiercioch and Zibanejad would share the second point spot.

    Leave a comment:


  • matchesmalone
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    Hm, I wouldn't mind that St. Louis package. Although there is still obviously concern as to how Rattie's game will adapt to the NHL game, but the potential is clearly there, and there were questions about how well it would adapt to the pro game before he answered those questions with a 31 goal rookie season.

    Hard to pick between Berglund and Bonino. Just keep in mind how promising a young player Berglund looked like after his 52 point season, and he was only 23 at the time. Bonino broke out for 49 points but is already 26 now, so I'm not sure how much upward mobility there is left for him, or even whether this season might have been a bit of a fluke and he'll take a step back next year, like Berglund did. The fact that 20 of his 49 points came on the powerplay could hint towards that.

    But that very same thing is part of what's so exciting about him. If we're losing Spezza, we're losing a lot on the powerplay, more than anything else. If this year wasn't a fluke for Bonino, and he is actually a capable powerplay specialist at the NHL level, then that nearly three minutes of PP ice time per game would go a long way in replacing Spezza, plus lets not forget the 1:41 per game SH.

    Berglund is bigger, more physical, and more experienced, but he doesn't have the same special teams pedigree Bonino has. Bonino finished seventh in the league among blocked shots by forwards. But the one stat I really like about Beglund this year was the ratio of 42 takeaways to 12 giveaways.

    Ultimately, I think I'd go with Bonino, hoping for the possibility of still more offensive upside.

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  • Dean Ambrose
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    Stewart for Lazar? lirl

    Leave a comment:


  • Alfie11
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    Originally posted by matchesmalone
    Originally posted by Alfie11
    Bruce Garrioch says the Sens called the Sabres about Chris Stewart but the asking price was really high. They wanted Lazar. Also, Don Cherry spoke on why the Sens did so bad this year. A lack of Canadian's, and too many European's :lol:
    I would LOVE to have Chris Stewart as a Sen, but they can suck my left testicle for Lazar. I was hoping maybe we could get him as part of a package for Spezza, but I wouldn't be surprised if you're right that Murray won't trade Spezza within the Eastern Conference.
    I agree that Chris Stewart would be a really good piece to this team. In fact, I was 90% sure he was going to be a Senator at the deadline but something obviously fell through, and it appears to be the asking price. I think he's a piece that Ottawa needs to acquire at some point - good around the net, big and has a good scoring touch. I really like him as a player, but not enough to deal our top prospect over. I was imaging his asking price as a second round pick and a B-level prospect such as Shane Prince. Plus Stewart is only 26 years old.

    Originally posted by Alfie11
    Perhaps "this draft sucks" wasn't the best wording, but I don't think it's a great draft. As I said, I didn't follow it too closely but after some research I find it to be slightly below average. Personally, it seems like there's quite a drop off after about the sixth or seventh ranked players, but that's just me. You watch a lot more of these players than me, but I don't really see that many players panning out to be great players. I think, other than one of those picks, we'd be better off getting a prospect who's already at least one year developed or a future draft pick.
    [quote:373djm9v]Yeah, I don't want to argue this very strongly, because I do have my doubts about the overall quality of this draft. Again, not sold on the depth past the first round or the pool of defensemen, but the first fifteen or twenty forwards really does remind me of 2003. When you've got three 17/18 year olds already scoring 100 points in the CHL, seven 90 point scorers, a few really good Europeans, at least a few of them are gonna eventually put up similar numbers in the NHL. And that's not even mentioning potential superstars Brendan Perlini (who looks a little like Jeff Carter, speaking of the '03 draft), OHL playoff MVP Robby Fabbri, or Jake Virtanen, or sleepers like Josh Ho-Sang, Chase De Leo and Nikita Scherbak, who are all likely to fall out of the first round.

    I do think a lot of these players are fairly high risk, so maybe you're right that a 2012 or 2013 prospect, or 2015 pick might be the safer bet. The neat thing with the 2015 draft, is that it's so good, no matter where you pick in the first round, you're likely going to get a good player. In fact, aside from the top two, who are elite - borderline generational - prospects, you might be as likely to get an all-star or superstar 25th overall as you would 5th overall. So yes, take a 2015 first rounder over a 2014, but I wouldn't take extra efforts to avoid a 2014 pick. That said, lets not forget, statistically, an early to mid second rounder is generally just as good as a late first, so if we could improve the roster player or prospect portion of the package and take a 2014 second rounder instead of a first, there are a few guys, like Ho-Sang, Jayce Hawryluk, and Lazar's linemate Brett Pollock who I'm quite interested in.
    Well, as I said, you know the draft a prospects a hell of a lot better than I do. To be honest, I was slacking on watching some Sens games this year, let alone around the NHL and especially junior hockey. Based on what I had heard and some small research I did, I'm a little surprised to hear your comparisons but you do raise some good points and stats in your favour. Much like you I'm all for getting a second instead of a first if it includes slight improvements of a roster player or prospect.

    A little off-topic to what we're discussing but my only concern with the Bobby Ryan trade is getting him re-signed, and that fear isn't all that big as I feel an extension will come this summer. I mean, the pick is the pick. It was a little higher than hoped but it could have been a lot worse. Silfverberg isn't a bad player but I don't think he'll ever amount to a GREAT player. I don't like his speed or acceleration and I think he's going to have a hard time getting open to let his shot off in the future. I even had his jersey and I wasn't too bummed about losing him. And finally, there's Noesen who I was excited to see what he could do but you have to give to get a player like Ryan. I'd do the trade over and over again because Ryan is such a dynamic player and is a threat any time he's out there. I think he's going to have a great bounce-back year.

    Originally posted by Alfie11
    As for Berglund, I don't really have any interest. First of all, we have a centre surplus, even with Spezza gone. Turris, Zibanejad and Smith have all made an impact at the NHL level already. Pageau and Lazar look very promising. I think a centre is the last thing we need, honestly. The only one on that list I would really want to convert to wing is Pageau and maybe Smith - Zibanejad looks a lot better at centre than the wing, Lazar's two-way game is more suited for a centre than a winger. Berglund showed some promise in his rookie year, the only problem is that was 2008. He's now 26 and isn't even cracking 40 points which is pretty concerning.
    I would be tempted to agree with you here. Not a huge fan of Berglund anymore, although I do think he'd do a lot better in Ottawa than he has been in St. Louis, where he's been buried pretty far down the depth chart. And more importantly, if we were to acquire him, he wouldn't be the centerpiece of the deal. If we could get Berglund plus two of: a first rounder, Tommy Vannelli, Jordan Schmaltz, Ty Rattie and Dmitri Jaskins, I would be perfectly happy.

    Also, it is vital that if we trade Spezza, we get a. somebody who can take faceoffs. Despite what Alfie said about not wanting more centers, the Sens are very limited on faceoff options after Spezza, who takes the great majority of our draws. If we trade him, we need somebody coming back who can take some of those draws. Berglund takes a lot of faceoffs. b. someone who can kill penalties. If Spezza and Michalek both leave, that's two of the regulars from an already weak PK, so we need someone who can play in those situations. Berglund played over 1:30 per game shorthanded this year.

    And all this brings me to a few possible packages or targets I thought we might be able to squeeze out of Spezza, based on the list of teams Alfie gave:

    Anaheim - I have a very specific wishlist from Anaheim: Kyle Palmieri and Nick Bonino. Bonino is a sound two-way player, takes faceoffs, kills penalties, and even plays quite a bit on the PP. More important though is Kyle Palmieri; an excellent young player who should develop into a at least a 25 goal, 50 point scorer, he had phenomenal chemistry with Ryan in Anaheim (in fact, the three of them often played on a line together), and just as important is the off-ice chemistry, he's a fellow jersey boy, which could be big in convincing Ryan to stay next summer. The third piece of this package isn't all that important to me. Anaheim has a ridiculous wealth of prospects to choose from, and I've been really big on Patrick Maroon for a while, but I wouldn't be picky as long as we could get those two.

    Nashville: Their prospect pool, like Anaheim's, is stacked, so on one hand, as would be the case with St. Louis, we'd want the package to focus on futures, but on the other, Nashville is very much a budget team, so would have to give up some contracts to take on Spezza's. But that's not a problem really, because I do very much like Patric Hornqvist. So the package would look something like Hornqvist/Craig Smith, Nystrom/Wilson/Stalberg, and a pick or prospect. I'd be pushing really hard for Austin Watson, but I doubt they'd be willing to move him.

    St. Louis: Berglund would likely be a necessity if we were to go this route. I can't even imagine would else we could take from them, roster player-wise, and so, like Nashville, the package would be picks and prospect focused. We do clearly need at least two new NHL-ready forwards, but we could always fill one of those via free agency: Cammalleri, Moulson, Ott, Brassard and Vrbata could all be viable options. In fact, if we could get Brassard, we wouldn't need another center out of a Spezza deal... but if such a trade were to happen, there's a good chance it would be at the draft, so there'd be no room to wait and see on Brassard.

    Vancouver: I do like Higgins and Hansen, but I just can't really see this happening, especially since it has been reported that they're not going to move Edler... unless maybe it's still true that Kesler wants out of Vancouver and we could try to work out a Spezza for Kesler swap.
    [/quote:373djm9v]

    From what I've heard with St. Louis a likely package would be Berglund + Rattie + 1st/2nd which isn't too bad of a package. I have a question for you, Matches. Who would you rather have if given the choice - Patrik Berglund or Nick Bonino? Personally, I would have had to say Bonino, but reading Travis Yost's blog and some comments it seems that the general consensus is Berglund.

    Leave a comment:


  • matchesmalone
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    Originally posted by Alfie11
    Bruce Garrioch says the Sens called the Sabres about Chris Stewart but the asking price was really high. They wanted Lazar. Also, Don Cherry spoke on why the Sens did so bad this year. A lack of Canadian's, and too many European's :lol:
    Not just not enough Canadians, not enough Ontarians! :?

    I would LOVE to have Chris Stewart as a Sen, but they can suck my left testicle for Lazar. I was hoping maybe we could get him as part of a package for Spezza, but I wouldn't be surprised if you're right that Murray won't trade Spezza within the Eastern Conference.

    Originally posted by Alfie11
    Perhaps "this draft sucks" wasn't the best wording, but I don't think it's a great draft. As I said, I didn't follow it too closely but after some research I find it to be slightly below average. Personally, it seems like there's quite a drop off after about the sixth or seventh ranked players, but that's just me. You watch a lot more of these players than me, but I don't really see that many players panning out to be great players. I think, other than one of those picks, we'd be better off getting a prospect who's already at least one year developed or a future draft pick.
    Yeah, I don't want to argue this very strongly, because I do have my doubts about the overall quality of this draft. Again, not sold on the depth past the first round or the pool of defensemen, but the first fifteen or twenty forwards really does remind me of 2003. When you've got three 17/18 year olds already scoring 100 points in the CHL, seven 90 point scorers, a few really good Europeans, at least a few of them are gonna eventually put up similar numbers in the NHL. And that's not even mentioning potential superstars Brendan Perlini (who looks a little like Jeff Carter, speaking of the '03 draft), OHL playoff MVP Robby Fabbri, or Jake Virtanen, or sleepers like Josh Ho-Sang, Chase De Leo and Nikita Scherbak, who are all likely to fall out of the first round.

    I do think a lot of these players are fairly high risk, so maybe you're right that a 2012 or 2013 prospect, or 2015 pick might be the safer bet. The neat thing with the 2015 draft, is that it's so good, no matter where you pick in the first round, you're likely going to get a good player. In fact, aside from the top two, who are elite - borderline generational - prospects, you might be as likely to get an all-star or superstar 25th overall as you would 5th overall. So yes, take a 2015 first rounder over a 2014, but I wouldn't take extra efforts to avoid a 2014 pick. That said, lets not forget, statistically, an early to mid second rounder is generally just as good as a late first, so if we could improve the roster player or prospect portion of the package and take a 2014 second rounder instead of a first, there are a few guys, like Ho-Sang, Jayce Hawryluk, and Lazar's linemate Brett Pollock who I'm quite interested in.

    Originally posted by Alfie11
    As for Berglund, I don't really have any interest. First of all, we have a centre surplus, even with Spezza gone. Turris, Zibanejad and Smith have all made an impact at the NHL level already. Pageau and Lazar look very promising. I think a centre is the last thing we need, honestly. The only one on that list I would really want to convert to wing is Pageau and maybe Smith - Zibanejad looks a lot better at centre than the wing, Lazar's two-way game is more suited for a centre than a winger. Berglund showed some promise in his rookie year, the only problem is that was 2008. He's now 26 and isn't even cracking 40 points which is pretty concerning.
    I would be tempted to agree with you here. Not a huge fan of Berglund anymore, although I do think he'd do a lot better in Ottawa than he has been in St. Louis, where he's been buried pretty far down the depth chart. And more importantly, if we were to acquire him, he wouldn't be the centerpiece of the deal. If we could get Berglund plus two of: a first rounder, Tommy Vannelli, Jordan Schmaltz, Ty Rattie and Dmitri Jaskins, I would be perfectly happy.

    Also, it is vital that if we trade Spezza, we get a. somebody who can take faceoffs. Despite what Alfie said about not wanting more centers, the Sens are very limited on faceoff options after Spezza, who takes the great majority of our draws. If we trade him, we need somebody coming back who can take some of those draws. Berglund takes a lot of faceoffs. b. someone who can kill penalties. If Spezza and Michalek both leave, that's two of the regulars from an already weak PK, so we need someone who can play in those situations. Berglund played over 1:30 per game shorthanded this year.

    And all this brings me to a few possible packages or targets I thought we might be able to squeeze out of Spezza, based on the list of teams Alfie gave:

    Anaheim - I have a very specific wishlist from Anaheim: Kyle Palmieri and Nick Bonino. Bonino is a sound two-way player, takes faceoffs, kills penalties, and even plays quite a bit on the PP. More important though is Kyle Palmieri; an excellent young player who should develop into a at least a 25 goal, 50 point scorer, he had phenomenal chemistry with Ryan in Anaheim (in fact, the three of them often played on a line together), and just as important is the off-ice chemistry, he's a fellow jersey boy, which could be big in convincing Ryan to stay next summer. The third piece of this package isn't all that important to me. Anaheim has a ridiculous wealth of prospects to choose from, and I've been really big on Patrick Maroon for a while, but I wouldn't be picky as long as we could get those two.

    Nashville: Their prospect pool, like Anaheim's, is stacked, so on one hand, as would be the case with St. Louis, we'd want the package to focus on futures, but on the other, Nashville is very much a budget team, so would have to give up some contracts to take on Spezza's. But that's not a problem really, because I do very much like Patric Hornqvist. So the package would look something like Hornqvist/Craig Smith, Nystrom/Wilson/Stalberg, and a pick or prospect. I'd be pushing really hard for Austin Watson, but I doubt they'd be willing to move him.

    St. Louis: Berglund would likely be a necessity if we were to go this route. I can't even imagine would else we could take from them, roster player-wise, and so, like Nashville, the package would be picks and prospect focused. We do clearly need at least two new NHL-ready forwards, but we could always fill one of those via free agency: Cammalleri, Moulson, Ott, Brassard and Vrbata could all be viable options. In fact, if we could get Brassard, we wouldn't need another center out of a Spezza deal... but if such a trade were to happen, there's a good chance it would be at the draft, so there'd be no room to wait and see on Brassard.

    Vancouver: I do like Higgins and Hansen, but I just can't really see this happening, especially since it has been reported that they're not going to move Edler... unless maybe it's still true that Kesler wants out of Vancouver and we could try to work out a Spezza for Kesler swap.

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  • Alfie11
    replied
    Re: Best possible roster under $57M?

    Yeah, pretty much. I remember the Sens are down in the series 1-0 to the Penguins and he showed a clip at one point of Silfverberg and Zibanejad laughing and was very angry about how they shouldn't be laughing when down in a series (despite nobody knowing what the circumstances are). He also was very angry that Alfredsson was wearing a headband during warmup to keep his hair out of his face.

    There's a clip of him showing Jagr getting checked and calling him a "bad player", and Bure, too.

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