The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

[Josh]

When speaking about the recent hiring of Chris Pronger to the NHL Player Safety Department, Gary Bettman basically came out and said that the Flyers are circumventing the cap by keeping Pronger on LTIR. How can the NHL higher a supposedly active player? Check out Bettman's quote:

Chris' case is unique. There are salary cap reasons why he couldn't officially retire, but he's done playing.

If Pronger was to officially retire, the Flyers would be hit with his cap charges. Leaving him on LTIR, however, means that while Pronger continues to "earn" his salary, his cap hit is not considered when calculating the Flyers' cap limits.

So here we have the issue of LTIR abuse, Bettman basically all but condoning it as a legitmate practice, AND a huge conflict of interest. Pronger, as a member of the Philadelphia Flyers, cannot be considered impartial.. apparently he will not be involved in suspensions involving the Flyers, but what of their rivals? What happens when Pronger is influencing decisions on suspensions to players of the Pittsburgh Penguins, or the New York Rangers? In my opinion, all three of these are huge issues. Teams should not be allowed to abuse of the LTIR like this (though I must admit that I can't think of a way to make sure it doesn't happen). Certainly, the league's COMMISSIONER should not be endorsing such practices. And unequivocally, no one should be able to be both an employee of an NHL club AND an employee of the league.

[Josh]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

Note: Pronger has not played an NHL game since 2011, and will almost surely never play again.

[Alfie11]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

I agree 100%, Josh. I mean, Bettman is saying what everyone in the world knows, but it's something he should not be admitting. I'm very surprised Bettman came out and said this. Not only is this cap circumvention, but the fact the NHL is hiring a paid player is quite concerning. Plus, hiring him in the safety department after his career of not caring about any players safety but his own is also baffling.

[Matt the Aussie]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

I'm sorry, but I don't agree.

We all know, and have known for some time, that he'll never play again. Chris Pronger is the only person who can decide when he wants to say the words "I retire". There is zero advantage to him retiring right now because he would lose his guaranteed contract money AND put Philly in a world of cap trouble.

Keep in mind that the money for LTIR comes from an insurance company, not from the Flyers. The terms of his (insurance) contract mean that he can continue to collect this money so long as he remains injured and for the duration of his (Philly) contract. If he was not injured, he would be expected to suit up for the Flyers.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the NHL for making the CBA in such a way that allows "retirement" (which is a subjective term, believe me) to be the event that triggers penalties to the signing team.

[thedaigle1]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

If this was any other team but the Flyers, I'd be upset. But at this point, it's just one more chapter in the comedy that is the Flyers front office. No team can bungle like Philly. The Leafs try but they'll always come second.

Also, Pronger and player safety? lololololololololololol

[Alfie11]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

I'm sorry, but I don't agree.

We all know, and have known for some time, that he'll never play again. Chris Pronger is the only person who can decide when he wants to say the words "I retire". There is zero advantage to him retiring right now because he would lose his guaranteed contract money AND put Philly in a world of cap trouble.

Keep in mind that the money for LTIR comes from an insurance company, not from the Flyers. The terms of his (insurance) contract mean that he can continue to collect this money so long as he remains injured and for the duration of his (Philly) contract. If he was not injured, he would be expected to suit up for the Flyers.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the NHL for making the CBA in such a way that allows "retirement" (which is a subjective term, believe me) to be the event that triggers penalties to the signing team.

Yeah, but if he's not retired he's technically still an active player. He shouldn't be allowed an NHL head office role while he's still an active player. It should be one or the other.

[Matt the Aussie]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

Yeah, but if he's not retired he's technically still an active player. He shouldn't be allowed an NHL head office role while he's still an active player. It should be one or the other.

Why? There's no law forbidding people to have 2 jobs at the same time. You could argue there is a perceived conflict of interest but I'm sure the NHL legal team vetted this before signing him on.

Pronger has the power here - the NHL obviously values past NHL experience in its safety department so much that they are willing to give him a second salary on top of the insurance payments he's already receiving. What's more, given his past, they don't even seem to care what sort of NHL experience you've had, just that you're somewhat intelligent. Say what you like about Pronger's disciplinary record, but he is certainly a smart guy.

Personally...I'd like to see SAFETY experts in the safety department. You know, people who know about the side effects of concussions, not just people who know how to deal out concussions.

[thedaigle1]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

Pronger has the power here - the NHL obviously values past NHL experience in its safety department so much that they are willing to give him a second salary on top of the insurance payments he's already receiving. What's more, given his past, they don't even seem to care what sort of NHL experience you've had, just that you're somewhat intelligent. Say what you like about Pronger's disciplinary record, but he is certainly a smart guy.

Personally...I'd like to see SAFETY experts in the safety department. You know, people who know about the side effects of concussions, not just people who know how to deal out concussions.

The whole thing is such a farce on the part of the league. I'm sure it placates some of the less informed viewers to see ex-players on such a board but play is as unsafe as ever and it's not getting better any time soon. Pronger is getting paid to be a poster boy for concussion victims who have made amends with the league.

[Jasmine]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

The whole thing is such a farce on the part of the league.

This.

[Josh]

The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

Matt, you can't tell me that it's normal for someone who is still by every technical count a PLAYER to be part of a supplementary discipline team that hands out suspensions to players on other teams..

We can debate the legitimacy of "retirement" and it certainly can be subjective, but there is no logical explanation for someone who is still by all accounts a player being part of a supplementary discipline team.

Bettman's comment that Pronger could not officially retire because of "salary cap reasons" is also pretty damning.

[Matt the Aussie]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

Matt, you can't tell me that it's normal for someone who is still by every technical count a PLAYER to be part of a supplementary discipline team that hands out suspensions to players on other teams..

We can debate the legitimacy of "retirement" and it certainly can be subjective, but there is no logical explanation for someone who is still by all accounts a player being part of a supplementary discipline team.

Bettman's comment that Pronger could not officially retire because of "salary cap reasons" is also pretty damning.

I agree it's not "normal" for a player to be involved but my point was that it's also not illegal.

Bettman knows that he has to acknowledge his part in what's happening here. The salary cap has been set up in such a way that people can get away with this. I don't really agree with it but thems the breaks.

Who's to say Bettman and Pronger didn't come to an agreement that he'd be paid less than normal salary because of the continuing insurance payments?

[Alfie11]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

It may not be illegal, but in a business like the NHL you have to ask if it's ethical. Personally, I don't think it is. It's totally legal, there's nothing against the NHL doing that, but I don't think it's very ethical of the NHL to do. You're taking a player who's technically still employed by the Flyers and putting him into a position where he has a league impact on rival teams.

As for the cap circumvention, it's definitely a grey area. Without looking anything up, in the past, haven't teams gotten fines for circumventing the cap in ways that are not deemed illegal in the CBA? I would imagine this would fall under that category. Especially when Bettman admits and is fine with what's going on.

[Jasmine]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

So its ok for some teams to go against the rules.......but not others.

And it was also ok for Pronger to injure players without facing disciplinary actions..so I guess its ok to give him the mandate to discipline others....

[Josh]

Re: The Case of Chris Pronger - Cap Circumvention?

Matt, you can't tell me that it's normal for someone who is still by every technical count a PLAYER to be part of a supplementary discipline team that hands out suspensions to players on other teams..

We can debate the legitimacy of "retirement" and it certainly can be subjective, but there is no logical explanation for someone who is still by all accounts a player being part of a supplementary discipline team.

Bettman's comment that Pronger could not officially retire because of "salary cap reasons" is also pretty damning.

I agree it's not "normal" for a player to be involved but my point was that it's also not illegal.

Bettman knows that he has to acknowledge his part in what's happening here. The salary cap has been set up in such a way that people can get away with this. I don't really agree with it but thems the breaks.

Who's to say Bettman and Pronger didn't come to an agreement that he'd be paid less than normal salary because of the continuing insurance payments?

It may not be illegal, but that doesn't make it right by any measure. If Bettman and Pronger came to such an agreement, it only adds more illegitimacy to the entire debacle in my opinion..